I don't know much....but this does not look right.




?

Looks more like cyanide colors than a torch job. Appears almost unused.

Best,
Ted

Agree with Ted. I think it was made that way.

It's a #222

He wants $650.

I peruse some french on-line auction sites regularly and that style of case colouring is remarkably common. Hideous but common.

Thanks guys. Guess I'm use to seeing the bone/charcole case colors. Like I said...I don't know much...but now I know a 'little' more!

Don.

There isn't much you could buy for $650 that would be comparable to that. If I shot that gun very well, I could get used to those "hideous" colors very quickly, especially if it was a 16 or 20 gauge.

Best,
Ted

Ted, I completely agree.

Cyanide colors and both very vivid and nice if you like them. Pahratazzys, Perazzi to those not using Grey Poupon mustard in your Rolls, used cyanide colors that were just as gaudy and layered like wet leaves. Took a little getting use to but after a while you just get use to them.

Like everyone else has said, those colors are cyanide. There are quite a few Spanish guns that use this method as well as the Turks.

If you look at the bottom gun, 3rd post, page 1 of this link, you'll see a Turk made Hatfield with the same type of colors:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=24270&page=1

Best!

Greg

2 3/4" chambers, no "step" where the fretted barrels mate with the chambers . . . appears to be one of the later Robusts. Agree that $650 is a good buy for one of those in good shape.

Agreed Larry, this is a late gun.
It has almost never been fired as witnessed by the breech face.
These guns are very , well, robust... and will last a life time.
$650 is a good price in that shape. I would use it any time, especially in bad weather.
The "Robust" was the utilitarian grade and was used by farmers on a quasi daily basis.
The treatment is indeed cyanide, and not charcoal case color.
Best regards,
WC-

I’m surprised neither Larry or Wild Cattle didn’t point this out but brevete is French for patent and not part of the guns name. The same may go for the word fusil which I believe translates to mean shotgun or musket. Probably what is correct is to refer to the gun as a Manufrance Robust, but being nothing more than a non-French speaker who has a weakness for French shotguns I may be wrong.
Steve

Amen to that!!! Unless there is something unseen that is a heck of a buy and I would jump on it like a duck on a june bug.

Hi Rockdoc,
This mistake is so common that I kind of gave up.
"Brevete" means patented, and it actually says "Brevete dans tous les pays" e.g. "Patented in all countries", which was likely to be a lie.
Manufrance is actually a newer trade name (1911) for the company f.k.a. "Manufacture francaise d'armes et cycles de St Etienne". The "et cycles" (and bicycles) was itself added in 1901 after the success of the "Hirondelle" ("swallow") bicycle.
So unlike the "Ideal" which could have been sold under the old name, the Robust which was introduced in 1913, as always been a "Manufrance" product.
The exception would be for its alter ego, the "Costo" which was marketed in the 30's under a different operation, but which was basically identical to the "Robust". (Costaud is a different word for Robuste).

The Robust was the workhorse of the French farmer, was incredibly strong and handled well. The later guns have chrome plated bores, which was not such a great idea, making the barrel rework quasi impossible.
Ejectors are quite rare.
Most of them were actually built in 16 Ga, especially pre war.
I have never heard of a 20Ga one.

Best regards,
WC-

I think cyanide colors can be done very tastefully. This is my Hunter Arms Hunter Special 12 gauge.

Actually, in this case, after "brevete" you find the initials S.G.D.G.: Sans garantie du gouvernement. Means that the gun is indeed patented, but that does not imply a govt guarantee as to quality. Very common formula.

Cyanide colours on one of mine.

Those colors (picture number one) are similar to early MX8 (and other) Perazzi's.

Stevens doubles were cyanide colored in a similar pattern. One writer claimed the rows of colors were masde by dipping it into the bubbling quench water slowly, stopping for a bit every 1/2".

You're right Larry, that's what happens when sourcing info from memory. The Ideal had the "Brevete dans tous les pays", while the Robust was only "Brevete SGDG".
WC-

gtw:
Spanish manufacturers? Frankly I think there's a BIG difference between my AYA case coloring and that example above.
Jim

\

That sounds a bit like typical French overstatement. To be patented everywhere sounds good, but not sure how well it would actually hold up. But then probably no one else wanted to try to make an Ideal! Very good guns, but quirky enough that only the French would do it.

Quirky? Larry, I resemble that.

You do indeed! Between the Darne and the Ideal--and those are just the most popular quirky guns they've come up with--the French win the quirky award hands down.

The French- they are a most curious race- etc. Better yet what Gen. George S. Patton Jr. said about the French Army in WW11 Europe, right after the Vichy troops folded like a cheap paper-mache suitcase in a tornado--the Operation Torch landing in Algiers to dislodge Rommel from North Africa-- "I'd rather have one French Division out in front of me, than have 4 behind me"-- But some of their fusils are A-OK- the late M McIntosh endorsed his Froggy Friend and his George's Granger shotgun. Persoannly, I'd give it back to George, if it his Granger shotgun, why give it to another fellow--??

There is always the exception to the utilitarian grades





This one is self opening, with ejectors and a "slightly rifled" right hand barrel (RAYE). It also has the retracting sling Idéals have.

JC

Jaycee, that as nice a Robust as I have seen. I like it! As I search for a 16 gauge Ideal I'm starting to be intrigued by the Ideal-Robusts.

Four palm barrels on a Robust? Cool.

36ES was the highest grade possible on a Robust in 1930, the only year it existed...
E is ejector
S is "Supra" barrel. This was *not* for slug shoooting as much as as for dispersing shot for close range action.
The 36ES was priced at 1800FF i.e. between the 5S and 6 grade Ideal(s).
Nice one!
WC-

Spot on. The "canon raye" was typically for woodcock guns. I have a Verney-Carron catalog from a few years back, showing an OU with one barrel rifled, the other with choke tubes. It's a 12ga, 61cm (24") barrels. Came with either PG or straight, DT or ST. Weight: 2.5 kg, or 5 1/2 lbs. That model is called a "Grand Becassier", best translated as "Woodcock Special". Beretta offered a somewhat similar OU a few years ago, with a rifled dispersion barrel, for the European market.

Hello WildCattle,

Thank you for the information!

Canvasback, here some pictures of a Robust-Idéal I took. Sorry they are not very good:





JC

Jay-Cee, is that Robust-Ideal yours? Have you shot it or any others? I know you have familiarity with the handling of Ideals...how would you compare?

PS, Your photos are just fine. Always tough on a sunny day. Better than mine usually are!

Dear (R) WTF ?
I am wondering what you are trying to say , as others must be, by the meaning of your...
"Persoannly, I'd give it back to George, if it his Granger shotgun, why give it to another fellow--??.
Did Mac own a Granger?...If he did, how could he give it back after he dies? or are you living vicariously via a dead Scottish/American gun writer that you've never met?
DGJ did an article a good few years ago on a few "Froggy" Guns, as you crassly say,(not that I'd call you a racist) & I believe our fine , late friend Bill Wise was involved, there were Guyots, Grangers,& I believe also some of the ones talked of here..& others I have forgotten.
So what was your point? I forgotit , if there was one.
franc

Hello Canvasback,

No the R-I is not mine, it was offered to me some time ago and no I did not shoot it.

I suppose it wouldn't be too different from an Idéal as the main variation is the barrels that I assume are slightly heavier.

It might still be for sale locally. I can ask if you want.

JC

Fox,
For what it's worth...I sincerely believe that if we met, names unknown to either of us at a gunshow or a casual sporting clay shoot, we could end up being friends.
Just this typing stuff is weird...lack of nuance, I guess.
I didn't mean to sound rude in my last one, well I guess I did, but now regret it.Sorry.
But sometimes your posts drive me nuts.
But thank you for your service .That might sound weird from a brit living here after you served, but I hope you know what I mean...
cheers
franc