I hesitate with what can be a touchy subject, but I'm going to come out and say that among the right kinds of moderate fellows, a measured dose of something fine does have a place.

My stirrup cups have never rested on a stirrup, but they have known some tailgates after a great outing afield with friends.

Very Nice!

I would be honored to share an after shoot beverage with that presentation.

Alberta Premium, no doubt...

Ninepoint that is a beautiful libation set. To answer your question though no, in my own personal opinion alcohol has no place when there will be further shooting involved or for that matter when there will be a drive home. I'm no teetotaler but where the shooting is taking place I don't care to be around anyone who has been drinking at all and it just ain't worth it to drive after drinking...Geo

Very nice set ...and again with the "where I'm from " but it 's a real problem up here ,I've seen a couple guys head to the cabin for a week or so of so called hunting with the bottom of the pan(bed ) of the truck lined with beer and liquor ...we have a rep for it I know ,but it's not for me not by a long shot .

But at the cabin at the end of a long day ,I'm all for a snort or two of scotch .

Just wish I had some nice tumblers like you got to put it in!

How does the Scotch get to the cabin?

Stuff like that is why I love strolling into European gun shops. Unique stuff NOT made in CHINA!

Why bother? Fine French cognac is much better!

The set looks pretty German to me, I spent many happy hours stumbling around in the snow over plowed fields hunting hare, pheasants,and partridges.Usually we waited untill after the hunt to imbibe,but on the traditional daylong drive hunts, all the hunters would meet in the area somewhere for lunch.There were different soups, etc for food, but always there was beer.Usually there was also schnapps, sometimes "schwarzgebrandt" from different fruits.In one area they speclialized in using Maize(corn),as much like good old Alabama moonshine as anything you put into your mouth.However the one thing that was not ever tolerated was drunkenness.Any violation of this would result in the hunter being invited to never come back again.All unsafe practices were stopped right away, including drinking too much,by anyone seeing them, not just the host.
Mike

Taking a nice bottle or two of scotch for a week or so ,between a couple guys is pretty responsible and enjoyable IMO ...filling up the truck with 8-10 cases of beer and a case of liquor between two guys is pretty much means you're drinking 7 days a week while hunting and whatever else you do while there ...pretty irresponsible,and border line retarded if you ask me .

I take the scotch up in the pan of the truck too,or in the cab if there's room.

I enjoy a beer after the guns are put away. I am not a prude nor a crusader for abstaining form alcohol.
I have observed too many folks who become total a-holes after even a few drinks.
ask yourselves this:
would you knowingly get on an airplane when you know that the pilot and or crew have each had just a couple of beers or drink while flying. Of course in moderation!!!!
would you knowingly let your surgeon operate on you or your child after having a beer or two immediately prior to or while conducting the surgery?
if you answer no to those, why would you allow consumption of alcohol during an activity involving the use of loaded weapons?


whenever I hear about " everyone only had one, we were watching to make sure it didn't get out of hand" , when you add more than yourself to the situation , you have no real control.

I take my Hefeweizen at the end of the day, after the guns are put up . just my two cents.

Great looking set; nice bag, too!

Make no mistake about it, prohibitionists are back.

If you haven't noticed, there are people quite willing to inflict their belief systems on others who at the same time don't believe any such thing could or should happen to THEM because their way of life is obviously so superior and correct.

This is the primary thing wrong with human society and has been since the beginning.

The question was 'does it belong?'.

The answer is it depends on the company you keep. There are those I always share a drink with and other crowds I associate with until it's time for them to go to church. They aren't going to change me and I'm not going to force anything they consider evil upon them.

More for me that way.

Could not agree more.

I don't remember hunting with anyone or in any group where the understanding was that nothing alcoholic came out until all firearms were stowed for the day.
I personally would not hunt under any circumstances then this.
Jim

It's a good rule. None should discount it. I can't remember gunning within the last 45 years when there's been alcohol around, period. But I think alcohol and guns depends on circumstances. I hunt with friends.

Let's say I was on the barrens hunting with newf and his friends and we "b'iled the kittle" and shared a libation after walking our legs off. It's social, companionable, part of a distinct island culture. I'd be pleased to be part of it.

I wouldn't feel I had violated a credo in the company of responsible men.

That's the modern day expectation Jim, and It's a good idea.

Things have really changed though in the 35 short years I've been involved in shooting.

First club I actually bought a membership at was a trap club. We would play a childish card game that cost a dollar to enter. Winner take all. Catch was that the winner was expected to buy beers all around the table, and beers cost.... a dollar.

By the end of the game our squad was on deck. We did this all day long. Nobody ever got hurt. This was an older crowd, and I very much enjoyed their company. Most of those guys are dead now, and I think almost to a man they died from smoking. There's a lesson there.

The next club I joined was a 'men only' club. That lasted until about 1997 when it was either allow women members or lose the charitable gaming license that paid the taxes. More social engineering at work. We do have women members now, and they are a huge asset.

I'm not an advocate of driving while actually impaired. I will say though... that .08% is draconian and arbitrary.

I would have said so too, but the maker is Pinder Bros. of Sheffield. Ordered them here, I'd be happy to pass along the link.

The field bag however is Polish, brought over by a friend of mine.

Back in the 80’s I used to go king mackerel fishing out in the Gulf of Mexico. My day would start at 3am loading up the boat, followed by an 80 mile drive to the Galveston boat launch with breakfast on the way. I’d usually try to put in between 6-7am. I’d often run 25-30 miles offshore. I didn’t care if my guests drank, as long as they didn’t get obnoxious. I’d try to arrive back at the boat launch around 5-6pm. As for me, it was too long and draining a day to even think about drinking alcohol, much less having to metabolize it. I’d drink gallons of water out in the Gulf and have one ice cold beer on the way back in. I just couldn’t risk being overly tired and drunk for that 80 mile drive home.

The problem with alcohol is some people just don’t have a sense of what’s enough.

Steve

When I shot at Lapeer last year I was very impressed to see that they had a separate "concession area" that sold beer, and the door remained locked until the shooting was (all but)over.
CHAZ

"No booze until the shooting is over" is certainly the American standard. However, if you shoot driven birds in the UK, you may well be offered a nip of "barrel straightener" along with your "elevenses", and wine will probably be served with lunch. But it's always done with moderation.

All you need is to be shot by one of the "Just a couple beers at lunch crowd" to change your opinion on this.

If it is one of the two Walker Bros- Blackie and Red (with dues paid to George Thoroughgood) I expect it walks in all by itselfie!!

I am 100% against drinking ANY form of alcohol where firearms, C-4, Det Cord or frag grenades are involved in the daily op plan. Sorry lads, I'm an old Green Irish Mick, who loves his Guinness and Bushmills like a schoolboy loves his pie (Thank Mr. W.C. Handy for that tag line) BUT- there is a time and place for everything-apres le chassuer, Oui-- a French 75 or some VSOP Cognac is great, as Herr JagerMesiter mentioned so well- but before or during Der Jagt-- Verbotten wir nicht Verscheiden!!

While the general consensus around here is no serious drinking until the guns are cased, there is an exception made for dove shoots. Drinking beer at afternoon dove shoots is pretty much accepted.

Not here, and by here I mean that I've shot doves over a large hunk of Ga. and S.Carolina. In the past 54 seasons of chasing doves hard, and shooting with every class of folks from po' white trash to filthy rich plantation owners, I could count the number of fields where alcohol has been consumed, while shooting, on one hand. And it's not that the shooters won't imbibe at all. I could probably count the times that it wasn't broken out immediately after the shoot one one hand, too.

No one has mentioned it, but there are other reasons besides safety to not drink while shooting. One, it is illegal. And two, it affects your shooting, for the worse. Anyone who doubts this is just fooling himself. I'd love to shoot against anybody that has had two or three beers, for their money. They'll be buying it on credit. I'll just stand behind their pickup and watch from a safe place until their through trying and put their gun up.

Cold beer is not the way to handle extreme heat on an early season dove field. Cold water is.

Maybe it is a regional thing.

SRH

I know some heavy drinkers who are dove hunters, but I've never seen them drink before or doing a shoot. Afterwards, it's another story. I'd steer clear of a shoot where drinking while shooting is acceptable. I've never seen one..

I've come closer to being shot by guys not drinking than by anyone at a driven shoot. Pretty strict safety measures on those, considering beaters are advancing in your direction. So lots of potential for people to get shot if you're not careful. "The peasants" having higher value these days than they did when it was strictly a sport for the upper classes, I expect the custom on drinking would have changed if it contributed to accidents. Our British contingent can certainly weigh in on the custom surrounding driven shooting.

I said SHOT Larry, not imagine what it might be like to be shot.

All the fancy flag waving and whistle blowing on a driven shoot is a ritualized effort to keep people that have limited skills or have been drinking, from shooting the ground staff.

I guess you missed that on your shoot.

ninepointer,

That's a nice set. I hope you enjoy it. It's clear that you're not suggesting that it should be used to provide alcohol while hunting, but with regards to drinking and hunting it's just not worth it. The chance that you could stumble across a warden who would check you and could smell alcohol are just too high, and the possibility of losing your hunting license and/or your have your double confiscated just doesn't make it worth it. That being said, there's nothing wrong with having a few with dinner while at bird camp after a long day's hunt, or even a short one for that matter so long as you're done hunting for the day.

Now when it comes to ice fishing....

I'm not endorsing the practice, just reporting what I've seen. Anyone looking for beer in my cooler on a dove field will find only water and Gatorade. It's mostly the younger crowd drinking beer at a shoot. As long as I can put some distance between us, I can tolerate it, if by myself. Would not take my grandchild there.

I usually drink water during the course of a day hunting. After the guns are put away, my buddies and I will have a beer on the tailgate before setting off for home.
There is never more than one beer per person in the cooler. I don't drink hard liquor, and, oddly, none of my hunting buddies do either. My Father wasn't a teetotaler, but, he might as well have been-I remember him having about 4 beers over the course of his life, never before, during or after hunting or shooting, however. My Father's passing did teach me that I have very few hunting partners, something I wasn't conscious of when he was alive.
I witnessed things going way wrong in an alcohol fueled fashion at a shoot at a local club in my youth (that club doesn't exist anymore) and have pretty much sworn them off.
An old girlfriend gave me a ceramic hip flask, many years ago, that remains unused.
The thought was nice. I simply have no use for it.

Best,
Ted

Gentlemen, I much appreciate the thought out opinions and civil discussion.

That kit has travelled with on all kinds of hunts over the last 15 years. It has been well-used countless times, under roofs or dark skies, after the guns have been put to bed.

But to be truthful, it has also come out under blue skies and I can count those occasions on one hand. The right combination of a truly worthy occasion (not a mere excuse to drink) and the right kinds of moderate fellows for whom a small single ceremonial dose is enough, is a truly rare thing.

I'm taken back to a buck I shot 2 decades ago. The first to join me at the scene was the same Polish fellow who gave me that field bag. It was on that November morning that I experienced my first Old World twig ceremony, which was topped off with a single capful of cognac. My world could not have been more perfect.

Not by me it isn't! Sorry to disagree but I have picked up and left a dove shoot because the guy on my left was drinking beer. What others accept is their own business...Geo

Mea culpa, I must confess that many years ago in Tamaulipas State Mexico when my bird boy handed me a couple of those Coronas in the little bottles since there was no water, I chugged with the best of them.

From the posts, one size doesn't fit all. It appears the absolutely-nots are describing hunts or shoots where all are not known well to each other. I haven't met any here personally but intuitively I'd expect all to be responsible with timing of alcohol.

Geo, your Corona story reminded me of a provincial skeet shoot 60-odd years ago when I was two-man with Maritime skeet champion. He missed his second shot, broke 24, drank a large beer at each break and ended with a 99.

That's about it, KB.

Some of the comments verge on neurosis, i.e. an irrational fear.

Just remember...

"Alcohol and gunpowder don't mix. It gets all soggy and hard to light."

Geo,

I wouldn't sweat those Coronas. About as strong as near beer.

Firewater and gunpowder don't mix. Period.

After the shooting is over is another thing. And "over" would include a celebratory capful as described above because that day's shooting was over when the buck dropped. But, again, if someone has to drive home or any distance, limiting it to one and one only is probably the best way to go. Speaking for myself, I wait until I get to where I'm going to sleep - usually my home - and until I'm done with anything gun related before opening a bottle.

Fishing, OTOH, is an entirely different matter. My consumption there is only limited by maintaining balance in the boat and the need to be sober enough to pass a DWI test if I'm at the helm. But I'm not out in the ocean or exceptionally big water, either.

You can still drown, Dave.

They found a guy face down near his boat on Lake Saint Clair a couple years back... the water would have been roughly up to his waist.

BAC tested at something like .30%

He was, literally, too drunk to fish.

And, besides, you could put an eye out with one of those dreadful hooky things you torture the poor fish with...

Have you no morality or conscience or social responsibility?

My God man! Drinking and fishing!

You are absolutely correct - indeed, it would be rare not to be offered a small drink (often sloe gin), mid morning, and a glass of wine with lunch. In 40 years of accompanying shoots, I have NEVER seen this abused by 'over indulgence'.

He died doing what he loved. (And proved himself a real redneck by being too drunk to fish.)

The difference is, of course, that no one other than the dead guy was directly harmed by the dead guy's (over)indulgence. Ain't that way with firearms - pretty likely someone else will be harmed by the indulgent hunter. Which, I guess, is as good a reason for the distinction in the law. There's no drinking while hunting/shooting, but there's no law outlawing drinking and fishing, only no operating the boat under the influence.

And, as John in UK noted right upthread, on UK shoots you're likely to get "A" nip (of sloe gin) in the morning and "A" glass of wine with lunch. "A" as in "one". Which is, I guess, a sensible limit if alcohol is to be consumed.

I believe there're many small water places that treat on the water DWI similar to on the road violations. Might not be the best game plan even if one could get away with it. I don't mind a drunk boater doing themselves in, I'd just hope it wouldn't involve some other unrelated person.

Really? If indeed no one else was harmed by his tragic death then he was a sad and lonesome individual. I don't know anyone who lives that isolated a life, that has no loved ones to mourn their loss, or be placed into hardship by it. I think your statement calls for some further consideration of who he left behind. Wife, children (read dependents).

'Course, I guess if he loved drinking that much then he wasn't considering what his loved ones might go through after a tragic, and embarrassing, death.

I sure don't see that situation like you do, Dave.

SRH

I think the distinction Dave is drawing is that an intoxicated person with a gun risks significantly physically harming another with a misplaced shot. A different sort of harm then from depriving loved ones of your company.

This whole thread is ridiculous....drinking and firearms do not mix...legally and by common street sense...the stories and traditions , here and in the UK mean nothing. "This guy was my buddy, we did this, and we did that...yada, yada, yada.."..all attempts at justifying this and that, ...splitting hairs.....this guy can hold his own ....he fishes shitfaced....in most states if you drink even after you have shot at a club or in the field, and get stopped..( especially with a shotgun in the car), and get a DUI, they will come and take your guns away from you.....the statement about Prohibitionist being back is an idiotic statement.....yawn....the initial post has nice items though. ....I guess " real men" can shoot while under the influence....there is no shortage of "real men " on this forum...

Drink then shoot NOT OK!!
Shoot then drink OK

Nuff said

PS drink then type is also risky i'll check this in the morning and see if I did OK

Deaths by accidental shooting in 2011 in the US, 851, of which 70 or 80 are thought attributable to hunting.

Deaths by accidental shooting in 2011 in the UK, 2, from all causes, contribution from hunting unknown.

As my late Grandfather would sing, "Booze, boys, and bugger the Band of Hope!"

Eug

Here where I live, if a game warden checks you on a dove field and he sees a cooler by you he asks to see inside. If there is alcohol there you are written a citation, period. No breath test. It is (rightly) assumed that if you have it by your stool, while shooting, then you intend to consume it.

If you are stopped while boating on the water here, and the warden has reason to suspect drinking, and you are, you will be checked and written a citation. Most boating accidents around here involve alcohol.

Wonder if these fellows who insist it is okay to break these laws are the same ones who will crucify a man for killing over the limit?

SRH

Actually CZ, all the whistle blowing and flag waving on the part of the beaters has to do with flushing the birds, and pushing them in the right direction. What keeps "the ground staff" from being shot is the "blue sky" rule: You don't shoot any birds that aren't surrounded by sky. Neither flags nor voices nor whistles nor anything else needed to tell grass, hills and trees from the sky.

Getting a DUI is a bad thing. Took my son 2 of them to learn his lesson. But at least in Iowa, 2nd offense DUI does not lead to a loss of your gun rights. That takes 3, becomes a felony, and you also lose your voting rights. But I don't think many states take away gun rights after the FIRST DUI.

L. Brown, you are probably right about that...in my Green state, the local police chief in the town you live in is the guy who does the review for your LTC, etc....also in some big cities like NYC and Boston....they will not even give you the class A license...you can get an FID card for a shotgun...so what can happen is the arresting police sees you have a LTC or FID....notifies your local chief...and if he wants to...he can show up at your house and take your guns....you have legal rights to then pursue...but what a pain....any little violation of gun laws can trigger this stuff...and any violation relating to alcohol can possibly trigger this. If you have the gun in your car, coming back from a shoot, and are stopped for DUI...believe me when I say, that gun is gone. The Chief can take it a step further and show up at your home and take the rest if them....there is a Federal court case pending now relating to this arbitrary application of chiefs acting differently in various localities. I am not speak to the legal issues, just that it can be a supreme pain in the ass.....and...here is the kicker...when your gun license expires, and you go to renew it...the chief will see that you have a DUI...and may chose, for public safety, or whatever, NOT to renew it..please, do not tell me to move, etc. this is the situations in many states.

Accidents can happen anywhere and at any time. It's always a good thing to minimize them. There has been comment that the situation is worsening, but I hope you folks have the chance to get out to the field more. I think it's just a numbers exercise and not related to intoxication.

In my 76 years I have learned that there are bad driver, poor drinkers and unsafe hunter, at this point in my life I have avoided all the above so far! My hunting fellows all take their libations prior to dinner, no driving, and at least 10 to 12 hours before the next hunt.

Back around 1970 something, I remember a US National Champion pistol shot that said in an interview, his secret was a can of beer, and a Valium before the match. And then the poop hit the fan......wow. We used to sell beer at the club turkey shoots back in the 1960-70s. Liability lawyers put the stops to that. One guy I remember had his shotgun taken away, and told to leave. I used to win more turkeys back then. One beer shouldn't be a problem.

My late uncle TA was a career Marine and a heckuva shot serving as a scout/sniper at one time. He also was a DI during his career at Parris Island. An older friend, Caleb, had him as his DI in basic. Caleb said the platoon was a mess at the rifle range, horrible shots. TA figured it was nerves and decided to loosen them up with a little beer the night before qualifying. It made them worse. TA was so pissed off at the trainees that, according to Caleb, he made them skip like girls all the way from the range back to the barracks.

I don't drink when I'm working and I don't drink when I'm hunting. But I will admit to playing better snooker and eight ball after one beer. Not better after two.

It would be a cryin' shame if a slimy anti-gun troll like nca225 got all likkered up and fell through the ice... especially after the filthy disgusting things he said about my daughters last year, and then refused to delete.

Apologies to anyone who might feign or actually be offended by my opinion of him. I am very offended by his remarks, and find it disgusting that he thinks he could just slither away for a few months and come back as if it never happened.

At it again eh keith? You may be surprised to learn that no one gives a shit about you, your hurt feelings or your trumped up outrage on the general forum. This is the place where the adults talk about double guns. The food fights are reserved for the misfires forum. You should keep your childish diatribe down there, as per Weber's rules. Didn't you learn that the last time you crawled out of the misfires forum and interjected yourself into a civil discussion to universal condemnation?

You two should should get together and have a beer...

In a gun free environment.

nca225, you filthy slime, you weren't talking about doubleguns. This is an off-topic post about drinking and shooting. The universal condemnation you speak of is just another lie from an anti-gun troll who wishes to pretend to be a gun guy. No one says what you said about my daughters and gets a pass. I know it bothers you immensely to be outed as an anti-gun troll who is now pretending to be civil. You "give a shit". That makes me smile.

Shotgunjones, couple days ago, nca225 said I risked getting punched in the nose. I asked him when he'd like to try that. No answer.

Or maybe a duel.

SRH

I expect the requirement for a gun free environment would relegate that duel to being a fencing match.

Besides, keith really doesn't want to fight someone who will hit him back. He likes picking on old men who don't fight back, and then self gratifying himself on his prowess, which has made his palm very sore from his attacks on King. He must have one very dirty keyboard.

Another idle threat from a coward anti-gun troll who thinks he can get away with posting filthy things about my daughters. Now Mr. Civility is bringing masturbation on keyboards here, proving my point. Thanks for the help nca. I knew you wouldn't disappoint us. He is one sick disgusting puke. Sorry if this bothers anyone beside him. I'm sure you'd feel the same if he said the same things about your daughters or wives though.

Still feeling like a victim huh keith. Did you call that recourse center I gave you a link to? Here's another; http://www.pcadv.org/Find-Help/Victim-Resources-PA/

Call them so you can get some help.

Recourse Center??? The only other recourse I have is to let a filthy disgusting slimeball like you get away with saying the filthy things you said about my daughters. Maybe you shouldn't have been so filthy and so stupid. Maybe you should have immediately deleted it as I told you to. Don't lecture me on civility now. You chose your path.

And maybe you shouldn't be a racist homophobic bigot that only has the guts to pick on old men. Scumbags like you get nasty things said to them all the time that they deserve. You more so then any. Its just that most men roll with the punches. You run everywhere you can crying like a baby. Grow a set and grow up.

Are you trying to tell us that you're a gay minority old man nca225? Seems to me you're the one who's crying, you cowardly disgusting whining slimeball. I'm merely not letting you get off scot free for saying what you said about my daughters. Maybe you should follow your own advice and "roll with the punches". And I'm happy to see that it's bothing the hell out of you that I'm illuminating the facts about your filthy mind and your anti-Second Amendment stance, troll. I never had a problem when you insulted me personally. Still don't...Just rolled with the punches and gave it back. Remember the good old days dirtbag? Then you decided to drag my daughters into it by posting filthy remarks about them. Took it further and refused to delete it. Went still further just a couple days ago saying you were glad about it because it bothered me. You made your bed. Now lay in it.

What you have there, Condor, is a "may issue" state. I lived in Iowa most of my life, and until recently, Iowa was "may issue". Each of the 99 county sheriffs got to decide who could or could not have a CC permit. FINALLY got changed to "shall issue"--which means the burden is on them to show good reason (like a felony record, domestic abuse, involuntarily committed to a mental institution, something like that) to refuse issuing a permit.

Re drinking to calm the nerves . . . when I was teaching college French, the students had to take oral exams, one on one with the prof. I tried to make it a relaxed setting, but obviously some stress involved. I told them that a beer or glass of wine--obviously ONLY for those of legal age :)--might calm their nerves. Also told them that going "over the line" might well cause them to crash and burn. Question of moderation, and figuring out what works best as an individual.

Thanks L....you are right on...there is " may issue" and " shall issue"... This is the problem .....reasonable legislation is a way of attempting to cloud 2nd amendment rights.....so....pass legislation that is not...and let the gun rights guys fight it....it is a great strategy. The cost and time is what they need to do....wear our resolve down....NRA is on top of this.....when you see statements from mayors against illegal guns...or Blumberg...saying that they are against illegal guns....remember it is really against ALL guns....I think all guys here know that. But we have three Supreme Court justices that love to shoot...maybe there are a couple more.....

It is not illegal in the UK to shoot and drink. Mind you, if there was an accident and you were considered by the police to be intoxicated, I wouldn't give you much chance in retaining your shotgun certificate or firearms license.

As has been said, on a days driven shooting here it is usual to find an alcoholic accompaniment to elevenses. Bull shot, sloe gin or even a slowgasm (mixture of sloe gin and champagne; try it, its very refreshing) is not unusual. Then at lunch a drink before the meal, with wine during it and even sometimes, a glass of port at the end, with a cigar. Now these are pretty special days for me and not necessarily the norm. On my regular, less smart, shoot someone will pull out a hip flask with sloe gin or the Kings ginger for a quick nip between the second and third drives and there will be sherry or wine at lunch. Maybe port at Christmas.

All this probably reads as if we are soaked in alcohol and waving our 100 year old fine English shotguns around with abandon. But I have shot in the UK, Europe and the Americas with judges, chief constables, justices of the peace, members of parliament, chiefs of defence staff, global business chairmen as well as farmers, estate agents, policemen, builders, wage slaves and all sorts. Never once in 50 years shooting have I seen anyone behave irresponsibly or dangerously with a gun in their allegedly alcoholic hand. That's not to say that accidents have and will continue to happen, but it has not been my experience nor that of others I have shot with.

Please note I am not being judgmental. I am merely recounting personal experience.

Tim

My own experience has been much like Tim's, though perhaps more like his 'regular less smart' days!

It is also interesting (and perhaps pertinent) that insurance premiums against shooting accidents are very low (in the UK anyway) - which is due to the insurance industry's acceptance that the risks of accidents (= claims) are very low.

Tim and John: The main problem here in the US is that we have a schizophrenia about alcohol. The 21st amendment does not establish any national standard. Any sort of actual appreciation education on the subject is blocked by the prohibitionists. Public discourse on any issue in the US is now heavily censored, the 'zero tolerance' idiots have sway, and the phrase 'alcohol was involved' when discussing an accident is used like alcohol has a mind of it's own.

Yet, advertising revenue mostly from crap like Bud Lite and Coors keeps the sports programs on TV. The various government entities tax both the ingredients and the products, and then they tax the tax. They depend on the revenue. Kids are bombarded with images of people having fun drinking limp American beer and then told the stuff is evil. We have a 'government warning' on the containers because our government is so concerned about us. They accept the tax though.

The DUI racket is big business. 'Wretches hang so jurymen may dine' has never been more true than with the DUI scam. I drive better at .08% than a lot of what I see on the road stone sober, especially the over 80 crowd who have their licenses renewed automatically by mail, the teenagers, and the soccer moms on their telephones. But heaven forbid anything bad happens even when someone else is at fault and I blow .08%. Then I'm a criminal.

We are out of our collective mind here about alcohol.

There is a major difference between an accident due to DUI an and an accident involving a shooter who has been drinking.

With the DUI accident, even a repeat offender far over the limit and driving with a suspended licence will be the only target of blame.

When a gun accident involving alcohol occurs, the entire shooting fraternity and the entire Right to Keep and Bear Arms will be blamed.

We are indeed out of our collective minds about alcohol here, but the concerted demonization of guns is even more insane.

The antis will use ANY opportunity to present gun owners in a bad light. This is apparent to anyone paying attention to what was attempted by liberals after the Newtown tragedy.
I can see the headlines now. "Drunken Gun Nut Goes on a Rampage and Shoots fellow Hunter". I enjoy drinks around the campfire as much as anyone but I personally would not hunt with a group that drank while shooting.
Jim

You're (almost typed "your", but but your lessons in proper grammar stuck) on to something here keith. Gun owners are demonized at large for the acts of a few. That is why it is so imperative to set a good example and see to it that it is scrupulously followed.

Now go ahead and call me shitbag...

You're a shitbag. Just kidding nca, I know I should save kidding around for down in misfires.

guess I left the door open for that one craig, but for the record, the invitation was for keith.

nca225, in the course of the past few weeks, you have attempted to come slithering back here after saying some of the crudest things imaginable about my daughters. You refused to delete those remarks when I told you to.

Now you are back pretending to be contrite, and just another decent guy here to discuss doubleguns in a civil manner. Nice try.

At the same time, you also engaged in a campaign to slander me and paint me as being dishonest. You have falsely accused me of threatening you, even as you told us I risked getting punched in the nose. I'm still wondering when you'd like to try. Perhaps you don't want to punch me in the nose because you feel sorry for me since you called me weak, a crybaby, a retarded child who is so inept that my co-workers must carry me, etc. Or maybe you are simply a coward who can be anything he wants to pretend to be when he is hiding behind a computer keyboard.

You doubled down on your filthy remarks about my daughters saying you were glad you made the insults because of my reaction to them. You quickly returned to your old habit of hurling insults at me, and now have the temerity to blame me for making you do it. You have totally danced away from your anti-Second Amendment stance which you unwisely brought to a firearms discussion forum. You have again attempted to defend your actions by neglecting to say that the mud-slinging which led up to your filthy degenerate escalation was a two-way street. I never had a problem with that... you hurling insults directly at me. I just countered in kind, and remind you that it was your incessant lies and anti-gun commentary that took us to that place. You alone chose to drag my family into it. You took it to the lowest place imaginable. You refused to delete it. You lowered the bar into the cesspool. You chose your path.

A shitbag is merely a container. You are the filthy slimy contents. Thanks for the invitation. You did indeed leave the door open... wide open. A fool could see inside, and your call today for censorship in the "Checking Out" thread is most revealing.

Definitely some stuff here that needs moving to Misfires. And we were working hard at having a polite, intelligent discussion about alcohol and shooting, and how our British cousins take a somewhat different view of it than the "zero tolerance" policy we follow in this country.

We are.

First, that is a very nice stirrup cup set. Love it.

Second, IMHO, there is a real difference in culture when it comes to both hunting/shooting and to alcohol between the US and most of the rest of the world, or at least Europe.

In the US wearing of camouflage type clothing is more or less a "lifestyle" expression, expressing a love of the outdoor sports, while in much of Europe it seems to be taken as a statement of membership in the Nazi Party. Very strange to an American.
Meanwhile, regarding alcohol; in Europe, it is quite normal to have a glass of wine or a pint with lunch. Maybe 2. In the US, people seem to either get blasted at lunch or not drink at all. Over the years, it seems to me, the number of people getting blasted and driving or going back to work blasted has resulted in the "zero tolerance policy" which is spreading to typically ridiculous US levels of stupidity that people who have simply driven by a bar are being charged with being drunk and children with pictures of shotguns on their shirts are being treated as if they had a real gun by idiotic US schools. Und so veiter.

Shooting men (and women) in the UK and in Germany seem to understand without being lectured or having to sign a 45 page legal form that having one sloe gin or one or two pints of bitter with lunch is not a real problem but that consuming, say 10 cans of lager or ale during a shoot would be.

Its maturity, thats all. Most of us understand that we are there to shoot, not to drink and so we leave any drinking for after the shoot. Too many Americans just do not seem to understand that. Search the coolers at any private Texas dove shoot and about half of them will be full of beer, with not a single bottle of water.
Maturity.

Cheers!

The subject of the post was "Does it Belong?"

My buddy's wives used to all think we went out drinking and carousing when we were off duck hunting. I finally explained to them the slippery muck and freezing conditions we were hunting, and what the end result would be if their hungover husbands shot a hole in the floor of the aluminum boat. We never got drunk the night before hunting, and for certain never drank while hunting. And we never went hunting after a night of carousing. Obvious gun safety reasons aside, the thought of walking the upland woods with less than optimum balance is a serious injury miles from the car waiting to happen.

As for drinking with friends afterwards, or even when hunting wasn't part of the equation - the answer is YES, and I've had way too many. Funny enough, someone usually makes jokes about masturbation, or boning someone's wife. A girlfriend would really catch some heat, or better yet someone else's sister if he proved to be sensitive about the subject.

In elementary school I was suspended one time for punching a kid who had said something about my mother. I had to, otherwise what he said might have been true.

Is there a consensus if you know you are with responsible persons---to know from experience they are reasonable, trustworthy---it's okay to have a drink at an appropriate time: four, lunch or sun over the yardarm at 11?

It is absolutely amazing what grown men can convince themselve's of.
My former friend and colleague that shot me believed he too was responsible, and enlightened about the effect of alcohol on his judgement and firearms safety practices.

You men may do as you please, but when the lids start popping, I'm headed home.

Clapper, no truer words.....but if you you need that drink...that is another story...lol....having a couple AFTER you have shot is no big deal...unless you can not drive...I remember hearing " hot Damn" after a swig, while guys sitting waiting for birds in SC.