I recently purchased the below Japanese 12 gauge SxS. It has no name on it anywhere. My gun dealer stated that he thought it was made by Kasuga because it looks just like another gun he sold made by Kasuga. It looks like it was a best gun, but unfortunately, some one cut down the barrels. It still shoots well, but the ballance is obviously a bit off. Any help on identifying it or estimated valuse is greatly appreciated.

It looks like a SKB Royal to me

Never heard of Kasuga. Maybe Kawaguchiya? That was a name under which Miroku operated at one time. I have an old photo of a Miroku boxlock with the same sort of scalloping on the receiver.

Nice gun. Too bad someone messed with it.

I know it's not a KFC - I've seen several of those and the at least are marked. I'll look at some other SKB Royals. From what I understand, many old Japanese Gun dealers also made guns; this could be just an obscure make.

Thanks for the feedback.

Hard to place a value. It would be A LOT higher if the barrels were left alone and even more so if the gun had a straight stock and splinter forend.

Adam

Adam wasn't that the gun you had the dream about ?

I have 3 Japanese copies of english guns. Here is a Hamada that looks a lot like yours. It has a prince of whales grip and a single non-selective trigger. It also has an assisted opener.
I have another with no engraving that is by Mashiro. The third has no maker's name. I call it the Jonnaught because it reminds me of a Japanese version of the Connaught.
Here are some pictures of the Hamada.

You're going to Adam dreaming again..

Here are pictures of my Jonnaught and a very similar one that I do not own marked Kanamaru. The Jonnaught is straight gripped with double triggers.
The last picture is the Mashiro that is now put back together. It just needed new springs when I got it. It has a round knob grip and double triggers.
There was a Japanese version of a Greener on Gunbroker last week. It went for less than $300, but the stock and forend were damaged and the forend latch was corroded on the edges.

Oganza,

Those are some great looking guns. I tried to buy a Hamada a couple of weeks ago - 20 bore, beautiful, and great price, but I was too late - someone else already nabbed it.

My gun dealer told me that Hamada was a small gun dealer and maker in / around Tokyo - maybe close to Kawasaki. It's no longer in business - has been gone for many years.

Here is the pic of "the one that got away"

There are some great Japanese copies of British guns. A friend has a neat Japanese copy of a Westley Richards droplock. Sorry, I don't have pictures.

Do you have any close-ups of the engraving on the sides of the receiver?

In good used condition, it is rare for these guns to bring more than $800 or so. The Westly-Richards droplock versions do go up to $2500-$3500 (I have only seen two and couldn't afford them at the time).

With cut barrels, I would think the gun would go for $300-$500.

The sad thing is that even if you had the barrels redone, the gun wouldn't bring what it cost for the barrel work.

If you were interested in selling, I would be interested as collecting these guns has become an interest of mine.

Did he buy the one from Hill Rod & Gun in Bozeman? They had one a few years ago that I am still kicking myself for not buying. I even saved the photos from it!


I assume this gun was made by Miroku.









Hamada was kinda like the Japanese version of Griffin & Howe. They were a high end sporting goods supplier and they customized guns. I believe they used Miroku doubles for platforms for custom guns. They also did a lot of upgrading. Americans in particular would take Miroku/Browning guns to them for upgrading and engraving. They also sold a lot of high grade English guns. I don't think they've been out of business that long. Last year, I saw their nice up-to-date website. I can't find it now, though.


Here's a custom SLE (w/ Woodward-style arcaded fences) from Hamada. It even came in a nice case w/ label.

Adam, you are right on. Good eye. Thanks for posting the pictures of the Japanese droplock.

Adam,

Great photo's and info. Loved the pictures of the Japanese Westley Richards. The Japanese ARE good at copying with very high standards.

You've got me interested in Hamada. I will have to see if I can track any down.

Thanks,
Patrick

Oganza,

It IS a GREAT shame the barrels were cut. It's a beautiful gun and handles pretty well for being cut - obviously the ballance is off and I tend to swing too fast with it, but it was ok on the skeet range. I bought it because it was so pretty and the price was not too bad.

I appreciate your input on it.

Patrick.

It is possible to rebarrel using barrels from some of the guns made in Spain.
My firing pins are 1 or 1.05 inches center to center. I found 3 separate sets of 12 gauge barrels that I have fitted to each of my guns. The Hadama also has a set of 16 gauge barrels.

The 16 and one set of 12 gauge barrels are slightly undersized accross the breech face. Only one of the barrel sets have a third bite extention, but I don't think that the third bite would be necessary. There are plenty of guns that are shot every day with only the double bite.
Eventually, I will cut into the rib and silver solder a third bite extention in, just for the aesthetics.

I was going to start a thread showing the fitting, but I haven't got around to it yet (I do have the pictures already).
The first took about 4-5 hours with lamp smoke and a set of files. I just wanted to do it the old fashioned way.
The next set took less than 2 hours as I moved to some mechanized tools before I went to the files for final fitting.

Oganza,

Here are some pictures closer up of the gun - sorry to take so long - I forgot.





I was also able to purchae the Hamada that I thought got away - will take delivery of it this weekend - hope to post some pictures of it.

Thanks,
Patrick

ah so, is there a business opportunity here?

like, designed in england, made in turkey and then marketed from japan, perhaps via brownings distribution network?

Several service members stationed in Japan who have posted here in the past (Scott Bunker comes to mind) came across some great bargains in local shops on Japanese made guns because of restrictive civilian ownership laws over there. Sgt. Bunker was subsequently stationed at the AF base here and we became friends. He had traded off most of his Japanese guns to Cabelas and for some GTI Merkels on his way here, but he still had a side safety Greener knockoff that looked pretty good. Don't remember whether it was a boxlock or an FP...Geo

Yes,

There are some good opportunities to find nice shotguns here at good prices. As a result, I've gotten quite a few and have begun learning so much more about US, English, German, and Spanish guns. Have not seen much info on Japanese manufaturers (SKB, Miroku, Nikko) other than the basic history of each. It seems from what I've seen and read, Japanese doubles are underpriced for their quality - certainly within the US.

Patrick, I'm pretty sure you'd get general agreement on that from this BB.