I've just been notified by an individual seller of a sxs I am purchasing. Its paid for, package, and he just received an FFL that I got from a local sporting goods store. I didn't notice, but the seller said the FFL holders name is a copy and not signed in ink. What is the actual purpose other than the gun being sent to a dealer for registration? Do you have to show the USPO the FFL for authenticity? or just keep it in your file for a record? What does the sign in ink have to do with the price of coffee? Curious to know. It seems like the FFL as used in this type of transaction is just a verification of mailing address? Whats the scoop? Randy
First and most important, it's the law. Signed in ink!
Second, since it's a copy only, the sender doesn't know if it's a legit FFL holder or some schmuk that's forging copies and having stuff sent to his favorite felon...
I don't think it has anything to do with the ATF laws, but he has your money, and that's the way he wants to do it.. MDC
Well, FWIW, the ATF says that a faxed copy of your FFL is acceptable.
Rick: I've been misinformed, Could you give me a section number in the Federal laws.. MDC
I faxed an FFL to Galazan for my RBL. Doubt they would want to get tangled up in something as petty as a wrong FFL
BATF last year sent notices to FFL 01 and C&R 03 holders that facsimiles are now accepted proof. The recipient can check the fed website to assure himself that the number and name match what's on the database. Simple and easy.
I have faxed several FFL's over the last few months. Takes a little education of the shipping FFL to make them understand that the FFL can now be faxed. A few refuse to accept this as they are not willing to make any changes in the way they have operated for years. Most just call and ask or go to the website ans confirm that this is OK to do.
The notice said that it was up to the dealer (that is shipping the gun) if he wants to accept the faxed copy or not. The BATF said it was legal to accept a faxed copy as long as the ffl number is completly legible. I accept them but I've dealt with a few others that will not.
From my read on the actual regulation, I get that it says you must send a gun to a FFL. It does not prescribe how you determine you are sending it to a FFL. The law didn't change recently, the recommended practice that is acceptable to the ATF changed. No matter what method used, the sender is responsible for ensuring he is sending it to a FFL. So, if he wants a DNA test, you can either satisfy this sender or find another.
All the ATF did was say you've done due diligence by having a faxed copy of a FFL or going to the website. It's not a final legal ruling if you are prosecuted. It'll go a long way, but ultimately it'll be judged in court if you are prosecuted for sending it to a non FFL. At least that's my read.
If someone would post the section that says that, I'd appreciate it. This came up a year or more ago and my memory of reading the appropriate section then looked to me like the faxing was only OK between FFL holders. I don't remember seeing that faxing a copy of the buyer's receiving FFL to a nonlicensee seller(in another state) was now acceptable.
This was the only thing I could find on their website:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/nfa/fax_affidavit_update.pdfIt just confuses things even more...
Pete
That was my question to Rick: I don't find any where that you even send a copy.. Just the regulation that you must ship to a dealer.. If I send a gun to Remington, are they going to send me a copy of their FFL, I dont think so .. MDC
My apologies to all, now you know how long it's been since my FFL was current. I was unaware that the regulation changed. Back in the day, it had to be signed in ink. I still have all the old signed copies, but my bound book went back to the ATF. That was at least 10 years ago.
That was my question to Rick: I don't find any where that you even send a copy.. Just the regulation that you must ship to a dealer.. If I send a gun to Remington, are they going to send me a copy of their FFL, I dont think so .. MDC
thats true, of course when you have an compliance inspection the ATF seeing Remington Arms in the bound book will not have the same effect as "Joes Gunshop" thats why the copy (signed in ink not longer required") of the FFL keeps them happy I suspect.
If in doubt you can call (I did one time with a Pawn Shop one just to clairify and they checked to be sure it was a real one and if there where any problems )or look on the web site to be sure with 01's (I don't think the 03 C&Rs are on line)
Dave. The original poster is dealing with an individual, he's not required to keep a bound book or any records for that matter.. I don't think there is an ATF law that requires you to hae a copy of a FFL, in order to ship a gun out of state...I think we're confusing laws with acceptable practices..MDC
Like I said, the regulation (CFR) didn't change, what changed is what ATF considers acceptable evidence that you have done due diligence to comply with the regulation.
On that point, if you use the online database to verify a FFL, you might want to print the page. If that data mysteriously disappears from their website, you don't have anything to back your claim you verified the FFL