Hi folks,
Second of my Grant pair I'm starting to strip down to restore. On closer inspection the corrosion around one of the sidelock plates and the action tang is worse than I hoped for.
This is the second Grant of my composed pair. Which needs restoration. I'm grappling with two options. 1) clean the corrosion and get it laser welded, filed down, re-engraved and re-colour case harden it. Which means I will probably need to CCH the 1st of the pair too otherwise it'll look really odd. OR 2) leave it, take it for what it is, but it looks a bit sad...anyway here are the pictures of the corrosion on the tang and the plates. One plate isn't bad at all the other isn't brilliant.
I'd fix it (well both)
if it was 1913 and you were off at your local shoot with the Lords and it got corrosion, it would be sent off and fixed with no hesitation and nobody would look askance at it.
I am glad to not make that decision. I think that you must work 24 hours a day with all of these great projects being accomplished.
Tig/laser 'em up and engrave, then CCH........would look nice and as they should.......
Cheers,
Keeping my plate full up Stallones. Keeping ones mind occupied with Children, family and gun restoration. A perfect life whilst trying not to think about anything else.
Cowboy, I'm coming round to CCH all round but I'm just considering all options...Once the thing is laser welded it will have to be the CCH road because it just won't look right bright and polished.
T
PS Doug...thought you might say that...
Tony,
What do you think it would look like if you cleaned the area real well then chased the affected engraving?
I agree, tough call. If you go the weld, re-cut, re-color path could you perhaps us a little less of the bone/charcoal mix or adjust the ratio to achive the more muted colors (I assume)of the other gun?
Phil
Tony,
What do you think it would look like if you cleaned the area real well then chased the affected engraving?
I agree, tough call. If you go the weld, re-cut, re-color path could you perhaps us a little less of the bone/charcoal mix or adjust the ratio to achive the more muted colors (I assume)of the other gun?
Phil
Phil, I'd have to CCH both of them. The other gun has lost all colour too. So it would be an exciting project to do them both...need to adjust my new CCH jig too for them.
In order to re-engrave they would have to be laser welded and filed back. I can do all that (bar the laser welding....yet..).
T
Heck, I'd be proud to own it just as it is; but if I had your skills, I'd have to go along with your first option...Geo
I have seen a good many guns in far worse condition being proudly owned and shot. The majority of work costs you only time, but the laser welding costs, time, fuel and money. Is the financial return if you sold the gun really worth all the aggravation? It's your call at the end of the day but knowing you, I reckon it will be two Grants cch'd, how about the cost of re-inlaying the gold SAFE on two guns???
Heh. I know, knowing me I'm going to go for it, but I'm just taking stock..quite literally. I can get the gold inlay done cheaply enough I think Salopian. Laser welding I can probably get done for 60-70 quid cash...and the rest...as you say is my time...if I'm lucky and get it right then they might look quite nice all CCH'd etc.
Composed pair of best Grants in original double case with label? You tell me...
T
How much of that patch of pitting below 'SAFE' actually shows with the safety button in place and in the 'safe' position. It might be covered.
Or in the least what little shows can be filed & polished out.
Perhaps the remaining areas on the top tang can be filed out and recut w/o welding too.
If you do weld around the gold inlay,,remove the gold first so it doesn't melt and flow into the weld.
They're beautiful, quality shotgun(s), I think they deserve the work to put them right.
If they're going for re-sale, those pits will be a tire kickers delight especially if other work shows on the guns.
Restore them IHMO. Then you'll never have to make an excuse for the pitting when showing them.
Thanks Kutter. I tend to agree with you. All views gratefully read and considered.
T
Tony: If those were my guns I would vote for restoration esp if I could convince myself there would be no warpage in the case hardening process. In fact I believe the English have the right idea on this restoration process because the English look at it as proper gun maintenance. In America a renovated gun is considered 'not original' and is looked down upon.....which I think is just poppycock. For example, I would much rather have a pretty old reconditioned Parker, on face with nice case colors than 'an original' worn out piece of junk. Many collectors would disagree.
tony: my money is on you the results will be excellent
and look as it should. my best
If it were my gun I'd be fixing the pitting and having the engraving repaired. As for the case colors I'd likely have them done also. The problem is this is not cheap or simple. If I were welding it I'd have everything annealed first. Not doing it could lead to porosity in the weld area and make welding the edges without any undercut more difficult. As for the weld process I am a TIG welder for nearly 30 years so that would be my choice. You don't need any special equipment just experience. Choose someone who is familiar with gum repair not just the welder in the neighborhood. I really do not know anything about laser welding and I do not know anyone who does it so I can't tell you if it is a good choice or if it is cost effective. Having said all that in the end you may well have to anneal the parts again after welding in order to reshape and polish the parts. The engraver will need the parts soft also. The parts will need to be re hardened after all is restored. To have case color or not is up to you but either way it is one more heat treatment to add to the cost. I believe that the gold inlay has already been mentioned also. Another cost. If you decide this is all a waste of your time you can send the guns to me and I'll put them in my scrape bin for you. Good luck with the project. Post some pictures when it is done.
Bill G.
Hi Buzz, yes agree. Pod, many thanks for the confidence.
Bill, I do all the filing and colour ase hardening myself. I will anneal the action too before laser welding. The laser welding will be done by probably the best in the business over here and he does a lot of other gun parts for the trade in Birmingham. He is in West Brom himself. So in terms of cost it's just my time..bar the laser welding. I've also got my engraving contact at Price Street. I'm lucky that they have become friends to a certain extent and they are just great.
Seems I'm swaying towards the full restore!
T
In America a renovated gun is considered 'not original' and is looked down upon.....which I think is just poppycock. For example, I would much rather have a pretty old reconditioned Parker, on face with nice case colors than 'an original' worn out piece of junk. Many collectors would disagree.
Collectors aren't interested in worn out pieces of junk Parkers unless it's so rare they have no choice.
In America a renovated gun is considered 'not original' and is looked down upon.....which I think is just poppycock. For example, I would much rather have a pretty old reconditioned Parker, on face with nice case colors than 'an original' worn out piece of junk. Many collectors would disagree.
Collectors aren't interested in worn out pieces of junk Parkers unless it's so rare they have no choice.
Come on jOe...you know what I mean...a redone Parker, no matter how well done will have very little collector interest as compared to original.
I do...I just think too much emphasis is put on collector interest.
If you have one that's been rode a little hard and put up wet what's it going to hurt to restore it ?
Go the distance, do both guns, and do them completely. These guns deserve it and you have the skills. Take your time, and do it right.
Tony;
How bad is the corrosion on the back side of the lock plate? If it is no worse than what we see on the front side, I reckon that I would have a go at welding and polishing and engraving afterwards.
Whilst re-color case hardening is a task that you are far along in learning how to do, I suggest another route due to the very fine engraving you still have showing on both Grants. That would be to re-engrave the welded area after a proper polish and see if both guns look brilliant just the way they are without re-color. To my mind the Grants (which are sterling guns) do not look as lovely color case hardened as they do with the actions hardened and in the bright (somewhat French Gray). At least the 12 bores are that way to me. The small bore Grants are a bit different visually and the color case hardening looks OK.
By-the-way do either of the Grants have the initials "J.R." stamped in the back of the action between the strikers?
Good luck in whatever you choose and take care of yourself
Best Regards;
To me, rust pitting is abuse. It's not something I cherish and honor. But in the end, it's just metal and wood. What's more important is Tony having a project.
My Longman's says that the meaning of "restore" is "return something to its original condition". I doubt the pitting is original ;), so if you're determined to restorethe guns, andit takes lazer wielding, etc., then that's what has to be done. On the other hand, is there any other reason for your messing with these guns but the fun of it? So take the route that involves more fun! JMO.
All good stuff guys, thanks. I think I'm coming round to giving it a go. These two are two of the most expensive guns I've bought and I didn't CCH them for that reason. In fear of getting something wrong. But the bottom line is you only live once (I believe, but hope otherwise
) and I reckon I should get the CCH right, if I don't then so be it, I tried. AND that to me is probably the best reason to do it.
Bush, I'll check for J.R.
Cheers
T
Tony;
By-the-way do either of the Grants have the initials "J.R." stamped in the back of the action between the strikers?
Good luck in whatever you choose and take care of yourself
Best Regards;
"J.R" stamped on the guns! My God man, you don't suppose they could have been JR Ewings guns!
Tony you do such nice work it would be great to see them brought up like new. The prices you can get things done for would seem to make the outlay a good investment. Where are you going to find another composed pair? I am sure they are hard to come by at a good price.
Cheers Roy. Appreciate the words.
T
Tony,
I think both of these guns should be restored to as new condition and then one each donated to the Dingley Harris foundation trust, I am sure the trustees would be eternally grateful.
Tony;
By-the-way do either of the Grants have the initials "J.R." stamped in the back of the action between the strikers?
Good luck in whatever you choose and take care of yourself
Best Regards;
"J.R" stamped on the guns! My God man, you don't suppose they could have been JR Ewings guns!
No, J.R. = John Robertson. Owner of Boss and I have seen his initials inside action of Grants that he actioned, screwed and finished. Quite rare to find, however.
No J.R on the number 2 gun will check number 1 when I get it back this week.
Lol Salopian.
T
What about this compromise?
Retrace what you can, re-CCH and see how it turns out sans filling the voids?
If the guns aren't perfectly matched for dimensions, chokes, era, weight, and engraving, I'd divorce the composed pair and treat them to what makes sense individually.
Does a composed pair command any premium at all over the two guns separately?
That is about as perfect as welding can be......with zero heat spread and damage in any direction......your laser guy is 'dead nuts on' Tony....
That's as it should be....the gun will look handsome when you are finished........
Best,
Tony;
Very proper appearing weld work to me--amazing good.
With the control that this excellent welder has (for example the gold "SAFE" inlay, I suspect the weld heat affected zone will allow the engraver to re-engrave without further anealing. I would give it a go.
Regards;
BV
It looks amazing. I was dubious that welding would look right but it is going to finish flawlessly.
I'm curious to know if the CCH will reveal the welds due to different metal composition in the "new steel" that was added.
Perhaps err on the side of caution and don't CCH?
I've done one before, the Evans, it came out fine and you can't see it...there's always a chance it might colour differently. That's the risk...however...I'm going to take it
T
