For some reason. among many of the cognicenti, there is the belief that guns with wood right up the the fences are superior to those not so stocked. What do you think? Chops

I think we spend far too much time upon minutia. Ditto the bit about a lug that penetrates the frame.
I used to buy into the whole "sidelocks are superior" er, "myth", I think is what you mean, but I'm pretty sure Zutz, I believe, said that fit was more important than hype about gun types.
Truer words were never penned.
A bird killed with a sidelock isn't any deader than one killed with a boxlock. Or, hell, a pump, for that matter.

Best,
Ted

Ted, I agree. For that matter a J.C. Higgins single shot barn gun is equal to a London best. Just wanted to see who else bought into the myth. Chops

Yeah, and my grandson's first grade art work is better than the Mona Lisa.

Stan

Da Vinci was in first grade, at one time....


Best,
Ted

The point that is often missed is that best work guns usually closely followed the prevailing style of the day. Stocked-to-the-fences is a style that supplanted the flatback style. After STTF became accepted, flatback was relegated to lower original quality grades. Flatback SL's ofbest work OQ made prior to this shift in style are still best work guns. However, an "A" grade SL, flatback of STTF,is not a best work gun; then, now, or ever. So, the presence of a flatback, while not an invariable mark of lower OQ, is a signal to determine the guns OQ before shelling out best work gun money. Same for lump through the floor plate.

I'm not kidding.





Any debate?

Stan

The Rigby vertical-bolt action aka"rising-bite" was made into the 1930s. It wasn't stocked-to-the-fences and had a pierced receiver. They were the foundation for Rigby's "best" side-by-side rifles and shotguns.

That is precious Stan, what a blessing to be on the receiving end of that!

Hope you get to follow up with a hunting report come September:)

Mark

Thats awesome! A true masterpiece. Nothing to debate :-)

Dustin

Love that Stan

Stan, great post, many thanks.

OMG Stan.....save that for ever. Kids are great!!
I encourage my grandkids to making drawings for me. They come up with some real doozies!!!!!

Stan, will you adopt me????

Boss until 1910 or there abouts and Steven Grant into much later times were not stocked to the fences.

I'm with Stan. That is great artwork.

Hack

I'd rather look at Stans grandkids artwork than talk about the b.s. of what makes a "best" gun. If you know your guns well enough, when you see a "best" grade gun, you know it, regardless of maker, country, action type, bells and whistles, etc. Is it ok to say that the definition of a best gun is the end product of a gunmakers pinnacle of craftsmanship. There came a time in gunmaking history where everyones "best" gun could be compared to the work of their contemporaries and be judged as equal. The only thing that could seperate maker from maker was a particular house style, and that's about it. For one to say that Grant, Rigby, Lancaster, Churchill, Pape, Beesley, Greener, Scott, Lang, Powell, HB&Playfair, or many small provincial makers couldn't produce a gun on the same level as "the big 4" in London is just ridiculous. Well, to me its ridiculous. I suppose to some upper-cruster it wouldnt be though, this would probably be the same type individual who believes that none of the big 4 ever turned out a lemon or heaven forbid an "average" gun.

Dustin

Me too.

Great grandson Stan! Congratulate him for me.

JC

The kid's got a future, Stan.
So,did you frame it yet.

Well said Dustin. Buy the gun.

Best guns are always sidelock, STTF and free of a pierced receiver. All that other well made stuff is just junk. Stay away from it. Leave them for the guys who can't afford a "proper" gun......like me. :-)

I agree with Philbert, boxlocks are just plain funny looking!!

I know right. Especially Harkoms, I mean, how much "fugly" can possibly be built into a gun?? Harkom boxlocks take the cake when it comes to really foul aesthetics.

Dustin

I'm quite a number of years away from having grandsons (I hope) but I sure hope to get a bit of art like Stan got. Makes me more jealous than any gun I've seen. LOL

You are a lucky man Stan!

Dustin, you got me on that one, haven’t seen one of those. But, look no further than the New Ithaca Gun(?) the boxlock with exposed hammers, now that is FUGLY!!!
Sidelocks have been around for hundreds of years BEFORE Boxlocks because that’s how guns naturally evolved through the ages and sidelocks look good with or without exposed hammers. No?

One of my hunting partners had the right sidelock "fall off" his Spanish Grulla (and lost) while hunting this fall. The gun is now back in Spain, being repaired. Cost will exceed $1k.

Not a common occurence, but it does occasionally happen.

JERRY

There are surely pros and cons to each type but I find double barrel firearms with side-lock mechanisms to be more aesthetically appealing.

Stan, he will be a great shot with your instructions! Bobby

Here he is a few weeks ago about to smoke a high incoming clay with his .410 Stoeger Uplander S x S "best gun". He'll be graduating to a 20 by next dove season.





My apologies chopperlump, and others, if I hijacked your thread. It was not my intention. I'll try to be more careful about that.

Stan

I'll take another one of these over any sidelock ever made, stocked to the fences or not.

Well, Bob, you know what they say at Graceland-you can't buy good taste. Bet jOe has killed a bunch of time there, BTW.
Really nice gun, thanks for sharing.

Best,
Ted

Stan, I'll bet your heart swelled up so much it nearly broke a rib when you saw that. You,re right, THAT's art!

Jerry66, how in Gods name does a sidelock "fall off in the field" ????????? best, Mike

Bob, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
I totally agree with your taste. Well I would do a I too own and use a Round Action.

Yeah, I know a guy whose stock fell off and he didn't notice it for a long time and then couldn't find it. He had to send the gun back to Germany and it cost him more than 50 bucks for a new one