I am going to buy checking tools to redress the checkering on my old Fox Sterlingwoth that only has lines remaining. From a previous post I learned that "flat" checkering would be the proper style for the sterlingworth and so I am thinking I want a 60 degree angle cutter to better leave a flat top on the diamonds? Because I am not attempting to bring this gun anywhere near original condition I will also not be cutting the checker to a new look, just a more defined look. I will use a single cutter to avoid overlaps should the 1:16 lines not be the same as those of any 1:16 cutter I may buy. So do I have the right idea with the 60 degree cutter for the flat affect on this fox? Thanks, Kurt

Kurt,

I don't have the answer but I do hope you post back with your results and what you learn along the way.. I for one, would appreciate it as I have an A grade with old flat-top checkering that has worn flat and I've been thinking about doing the same..

Best,
jmc

There are lines and the memory of lines. If the wood is real smooth and the "checkering" looks like an inked line (happens on round pistol grips) it isn't going to keep the tool in the furrow. Go over every line to get the dirt out; don't go deep on one line at a time. I think doing it almost like layout lines for a two-bottomed tool is best. Do a couple lines in the middle. Do a couple other direction on the diamond. The fresh tracks are something for the mind to follow. Raking light and magnifying visors need help. Don't ride out at intersections; don't go uphill into crossing grain or emerging grain. Don't rock the tool, baby. Go slow. Curved rifflers (a triangular "float" type file) are said to be good for chasing; I haven't tried that. I don't have any 90 degree, only 60. Fine tool with lots of "points" or serrations seems to work best for me. I haven't done much of this so there are those better prepared to advise.

jack

To recut worn checkering i use a Dem bart F1 fine single line cutter.You have to be careful,it may be better to practice on an old stock first. Use an old tootbrush to keep cutter cleaned out.Rabbit gave you some good info to follow. Bobby

I use a 90 for sharp, 60 for flat, I like to call this semi-flat, and a fine tooth hobby hack saw (30 to 40 teeth for inch) for absolute flat checkering. to finish the absloute flat I just touch the checkering with a 60 to smooth up the lines. I usually use the fine tools from start to finish but that's just me - I'm in no hurry. --- John Can.

Thanks to all for the help. I know good advice when I've just read it! I will follow this advice and hopefully with it, it will keep me from mucking this up to badly? I will post the conclusion.

In my opinon take your time ,when something start's to go astray..... LAY IT DOWN!!! take a break and return with fresh eye's and mind ,,you wouldent beleive the checkering catastropy's thay could've been avoided by a little patience.And most of all ,good luck!

And get a pair of reading glasses stronger than what you normally wear.

Also two part epoxy, walnut sawdust, and aspirin?

What Bobby said. Either will work; I prefer 90 deg for everything. Install your cutter to cut on the pull stroke; it gives you much more control of where you're going. On the forward stroke you make a light crease that your cutter will follow on the pull stroke. Also, when pull cutting you don't have to charge the border. Cut a line to within 1/4" of the border, lift the cutter, carefully place it AT the border and pull back into the pattern. Do that religiously and you'll avoid a lot of overuns.

I use a checking file, 90 deg. for recutting flat top.

bill

A 90degree tool cuts a BIG groove! I use a 60deg for everything. A good tool for recovering checking that is gunked up or really worn is a small triangular mill file with the end ground off to make a fairly sharp chisel point on one corner - and that's a 60deg cutter as well. The file thing takes some care but it is easy to see where you are and increase the cut or rock out just like with a chisel. In old texts I see refs to using files and the recommendation is to heat and bend them in a curve. I tried that once and found that the simply sharpened straight file was easier to use. The file will not cut deep easily tho, so the 60deg checkering tool takes over for that. The file is just way more better for correcting old crossovers and getting up to the border.
Like was said, just take your time and work with some magnification.
The stuff I usually do is 24lpi or 26lpi and is a righteous PITA. Brownells has cutters specifically for flat topped checkering - or used to anyway.

Dr.WtS

Here's a couple pix of the file. As you can see some real effort was made to produce an esthetically pleasing as well as functioning tool. I have been using this one for about twenty years with an occasional stroke across a stone to refresh the point.

HTH

Dr.WtS

I go over the lines with a knife blade first. Go forward and go slow. A rounded blade like a trapper works best. This gives a grove for the checkering tool to follow.

Like Mr. Campbell, I always install the blade to cut on the pull stroke. Much easier to cut straight and have no runovers. I'd use a 60 degree tool. Make sure you have some type of magnification and low angle lighting to increase the shadow. A light directed sideways across the pattern will show the lines more clearly. It helps also to have the room a bit dark to increase the effect.

This advice is very good and logical! Thanks greatly! Kurt

Kurt, you've received some pretty good advice on this subject so far. I know that Mike does very nice work and Charlie (aka Wts) is right about the 90 deg cutters so their advice should have some weight. I personally use Doiron carbide cutters for my work, mostly the 75 deg but some 90 deg. Unfortunately those cutters are VERY hard to get now because Doiron seems to not care. The Dembart tools are ok if you don't do much checkering but I don't enjoy changing tips, in fact I hate it.

I personally would use either the 60 or 75 deg S1 type cutter in a pull stroke as Mike suggested and just follow the lines. It can be done if you have a steady hand and take your time. It would also be nice if you had a small veiner tool to finish up to the border but its not entirely needed.

One thing to keep in mind with these so called "flat top" checkering patterns on older lower grade American guns is that they were not true english flat top. These patters were more like regular checkering that was not finished to a true point. True english flat top is very different and very difficult to do properly.

Ok, now for my rant of the day! If anyone decides to take up checkering they NEED a checkering cradle and a vise to hold it in. I know, I know, there are a lot of people that say use sand bags or whatever but that just doesn't do it for me. BTW, the current crop of cradles available are not very good and I'll just leave it at that. Make your own! I'm making a new one now for a student/friend that wants to learn how to checker and I promise to take pictures,give a bill of materials and measurements when its finished. I'm not saying that this is the only way to build a cradle but the one that I use has worked very well for me over the last 15 - 20 years.

Just so you know I'm not trying to "blow sunshine up your rear" I'm posting a picture of some checkering that I recently finished on a Remington 1894. This pattern was copied from a EE grade Remington with some small changes so if you don't like it blame Remington.

Anyway here is the picture.

As always, beautiful work, Doug!!! Is that a "mullered" border toward the butt? I've seen it in pictures, but never seen it in person. What is involved in producing it? I was very pleased with my first checkering attempt several years ago, and am looking forward to more in the future.

First let me say,Doug you are the Mann.That is incredible.
Not trying to steal the post,but just got back from NRA gunsmithing class on checkering and had some shoots of the cradle the instructor had as well as the one i made.I have the detentions if anyone wants it. The first shoots are the one i made and the rest are the one i copied.You will notice that on the older cradle you can add an extension for rifle stocks.I haven't fit mine for that at this time.

Thanks for this additional highly valuable advice and direction. I could not dream of doing anything on the level of Mr Mann's work! I only hope to clean the varnish out and a little more. I may fool around some, with the tools I'll buy, on boards or logs and may never do another stock? This will make my little project gun look a little less abused and hopefully not vandalized? I value greatly all the help I have received. Thank you again! Kurt

I'm jumping in with a couple other posts regarding flat top Fox checkering. Mine is a 1907 Fox A grade with checkering as shown in the pic. Question? I've not attempted checkering either but have access to the tools and ready to try my hand. But looking at the gun I don't see where there is enough room to cut an angle (90 or 60) on each side of the triangle and not eat away the triangle itself. Is the keyline outside the checkering cut or is it a knife cut?

Doug, Outstanding work on the Rem 94. Nice to see someone using the 94 as a base for a custom gun, they are really classy guns in there own right. Randy

For a bit f clarification, if my gun's checkering was in as good condition as RMC's gun I would not be doing anything to it. RMC's gun looks almost as though the checkering was made with no angle at all to achieve the flat checkering or does a 60 degree angle groove look that fine? Can anyone post pictures of a fox gun with flat checkering in near new condition? Thanks, Kurt

Although the clearest picute, here's a Sterlingworth ca. 1928 with unfired condition claim.

http://foxcollectors.com/My%20Forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2344#p13480

Most of the older guns I have seen that have had recut checkering have had the wrong angle checkering tool used. You can spot them a table away at a gun show. The original checkering did not have sharp 90 degree points. I have a friend who has lots of stock restoration experience. He sometimes makes his checkering restoration tool out of old hack saw blades that are ground even finer than the 60 degree tool that we are talking about .

Regarding the pic of the Fox A I posted. I posted the best of the checkering, the rest is as smooth as a baby's butt. Yes,in most areas you can make out the outline of the pattern, but isn't the checkering designed to give some sort of friction in handling? Randy