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Posted By: Geno Pregnant Darne - 01/19/10 12:21 PM
4 rounds 12G double gun with sliding breech made by A.Forgeron in 1935.
Charles A. Leve(?) Patent. Can't find this patent.
Sliding breech block with top made from wood.
On-Off Ejector NOT(?) Auto Switch on both sides of sliding breech.
As I understand not fired shell stays in chamber in full length or will be ejected, if switch is on, and replaced by next shell from magazine. It seems this system is far from ideal.






Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/19/10 12:36 PM
I see now how the French invented Fries
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/19/10 01:51 PM
I recall many years ago A gun of this type being featured on the cover of an "American Rifleman" magazine with a story about it inside. I don't recall if this was the maker's name or not. I do recall it being stated its intended purpose was to "Replace" a matched pair of guns for driven bird shooting & do away with the need for a loader. The shooter himself could simply open & close the breech with no more time required than swapping guns.
PS; The gun featured in the Rifleman was built by a Belgian maker & I note this gun has Belgian proof marks. Love them "French Fries"
Posted By: JohnM Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/19/10 02:03 PM
Hi Geno,

One of these DArne-style, four shot, repeater actions actions was featured in a gun magazine here, some time ago. Tho, this is not exact information, I do recall that the writer had test fired it and that despite it's unlikely looking apparatus, the gun functioned and re-loaded just fine.

Bye the bye, I have always remembered your engineer friend in Siberia, who owned a three bbl set for his IZH94. As you stated, he had it 'because it always worked'. Unfortunately, Remington, who is the current importer has little understanding of the 'utility and value' a basic IZH design offers, and insists on some stupid cosmetic and labeling effort to justify higher prices for the same basic gun. EEA, who was the former importer, just let the guns speak for themselves. And, here in the Great lakes region, they sold very well, as a useful firearm that is reliable.

I once was a duck hunters fair, Point Mouliee in Michigan, when a fellow strolled by with an IZH side by side, that had no finish and greyed worn wood. It obviously had little or no care. But the owner said it had worked reliably for as long as he could remember, as it was his Dad's only gun.

As for craftsmanship on high level Russian guns, the absolute best furniture restorer i ever met was from Russia. I asked him how he had developed such mature and encompassing skills at his relatively young age. He explained that he had been selected for and attended 'artist's training', beginning in grade school. There, all students were taught the Classical Western Canon, as well as there own traditional motifs.

Whether it was inlaid veneer, or acanthus leaf carving, or matching in missing parts, or building a case from scratch, or restoring an image, gilding, or applying a French polish his work was superlative. The education system supplied a steady stream of such graduates into the economy, at very compotent skill levels.

Another fellow from Hungary, Lukas Novotny, attended a similar education. He is skilled in all sorts of disciplines, but is mostly noted for his fine Asiatic bows -- Saluki Bows [website]. However, he forges Japanese-style steel, paints, carves, is a fine art glass artisan, and has all around skills. He's a well traveled scholar and was one of the founders of the horse archery movement in this country.

Again, there is the product of 'state schools', with a comprehensive education and training in the arts of Western civilization. Since Tsar Peter hauled in the Best of the West, and said "Teach and Build" Russia has created and executed as fine a work as hands could produce anywhere. One only requires the eyes to see it and the brain to comprehend it.

Then again, while not a ''fine gun, there is that failed and inferior product of one Mr Kalishnikov, too. You know, that AK-47? I hear that the user actually has to pull the trigger in order for it to fire. Ain't that an archaic concept?

Well, cheers in icy vodka, Geno. Don't let those rating stars mean nuthin' to you. While this board is home to scholars, and is a wonderful educational and information swapping tool, it tends to be like a small village where feelings, opinions, and disputes are way out of proportion to the rest of the good information. As the Hispanic saying goes, "Da Nada".
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/19/10 02:08 PM
Febuary, of 1977 "American Rifleman" cover story by Roger Barlow. The gun Roger saw and wrote about was in the Museum at Liege, and was built there by Charles Levy, circa 1928.
Roger noted the serial number was 204, and surmised that few had been built.

The gun didn't appear to be sleeved jOe, so, you can go back to your cornflakes.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: PeteM Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/19/10 04:40 PM
Interesting markings. Compressed Steel with an eagle belonged to Joseph Cape. I have seen his barrels on other Forgeron guns. If I am not mistaken the date code is for 1935.

I can not find anything on the patent holder, Charles Leve in any of my usual Belgian or French sources.

However, I did find the patent. It relates to new type of extractor / ejector. Leve was from Cannes, France. He filed a protective patent in the USA.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=c4tPAAA...;q=&f=false

He also filed his patents in France, Germany, Denmark and Belgium.


http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetai...36804E&KC=E

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetai...14937A&KC=A

Pete
Posted By: Geno Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/19/10 05:40 PM
Good work, John!
As additional info... I've been told Charles Leve never made guns himself, he was inventor only. Gun #204 in Liege museum probably made by MAB or C.A.T. (CAT...I don't know what it is) or some sort of Belgium factory.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/19/10 11:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

The gun didn't appear to be sleeved jOe, so, you can go back to your cornflakes.

Best,
Ted


It takes being worth something to ever get sleeved.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/20/10 03:52 AM
Uh-huh. Tell me, did you sell your sleever to a museum?

I mean, a museum outside of Tennessee?

Best,
Ted
Posted By: Jim Legg Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/20/10 05:06 AM
The gun Roger Barlow had, I believe, was a 28 ga.
Posted By: JayCee Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/20/10 02:35 PM
Hello Jaime,

I believe this is the gun mentioned and it looks like a 12 bore:



JC
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/20/10 03:42 PM
I don't recall if the article I mentioned was written by Roger Barlow or not. The gun itself was on display in a Belgian Muesem & was not in the hands of the author whomever it was. This would of course agree with what Ted said, I was thinking an earlier date, but could well be wrong on that as I don't recall seeing more than one such feature. I also was thinking at least a 16 & quite possibly a 12, definitely larger than a 28. Roger did write extensively about using a 28ga Darne, but it was just a 2-shooter. I also recall an article of his entitled one, two, three, four; in which he described a shotgun having each of those numbers of bbls. I don't recall the one & two now, but I seem to recall the three was a Dickson & the four a Lancaster.
Posted By: George Pittelko Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/20/10 05:19 PM
A couple of years ago I visited Connecticut Shotgun Mfgr and saw a SXS express rifle under construction for a customer. The barreled action was made, if I remember correctly, in Switzerland

The action was a variation of this Darne photo - neat idea.
Posted By: Tim Carney Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/20/10 06:37 PM
Geno, Miller, et. al.,

Here's the American Rifleman article.

Regards, Tim








Posted By: 2-piper Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/20/10 10:42 PM
Tim;
That is indeed the article I remembered, thanks for the post. When I stop & think about the date it is within a month of being 33 years now & my issue likely arrived in Jan anyway. I see that it is indeed a 16ga. Now I wouldn't mind having one of those at all.
Posted By: postoak Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/21/10 02:09 AM
Hunting with that, would definately spur conversation with the Game Warden.
Posted By: Geno Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/21/10 07:43 AM
Tim, thank's for the article.
16G version looks not pregnant Guess 20G would look just fine.
Unfortunatly there is no maker name in the article, just said Belgian.
Posted By: PeteM Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/21/10 11:44 AM
Tim,

Thanks for sharing. Interesting article. I would love to see this interesting gun in action.

Postoak,

Good observation! I think that conversation would not be pleasant.

Pete
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/21/10 02:54 PM
Postoak;
Not familar with the Texas laws, but here in TN it could be used on anything except birds covered by the federal migratory laws, thus no waterfowl or doves. It could be used for anything else. In all honesty in over 50 years of use I have just never felt handicapped by having only two shots, but one of these would just be neat to have.
Posted By: Geno Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/21/10 03:44 PM
There is nothing disturbing to use 2 or 3 cases in such guns depending on local law.
I can use "cartrige belt", no limits.
Posted By: postoak Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/21/10 10:21 PM
Originally Posted By: 2-piper
Postoak;
Not familar with the Texas laws, but here in TN it could be used on anything except birds covered by the federal migratory laws, thus no waterfowl or doves. It could be used for anything else. In all honesty in over 50 years of use I have just never felt handicapped by having only two shots, but one of these would just be neat to have.


Miller, in this case T for Texas and T for Tennessee, it is the same here.

I agree two shots are enough for me when it comes to hunting. And that is a very interesting design.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Pregnant Darne - 01/22/10 01:37 AM
Thanks to all for that group of opinions and pictures. I love the "odd" actions and find this one very compelling. Wish I had one.
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