Hello all,
I was told that this is the most extensive forum for double guns of sort on the internet, so I signed up!!!! I live in the upper penninsula of michigan and Im looking for info on my current restoration project, with varies form the usual flintlock rifles I work on here are some picture Ive drawn the marking as best as possible and tryed to draw the damascus pattern that shows up on the barrels as well the barrel lenghts are 43"... any info on style, maker, history would be greatly appreciated.. thanks A.J. Downey..

Neat old gun, ambitious effort -- I wish you great success in the project.



Cheers
Tinker

In your drawing the Crown over the Wings with stars is French. It came into use in 1824 at the St. Etienne proof house. It was changed in 1856 by enclosing it in a circle. The changed mark was used until 1869. I am assuming in that mix there is a maker's mark, but have no way to identify the maker.

Pete

Quite a task and I hope you'll post pics when you finish the project. Just purely a guess and off the top of my head I'd say it was made by Charles Francois Galand of 13 rue d'Hauteville, Paris along with A. Sommerville who held several patents on revolvers together: http://www.google.com/patents?id=2eJOAAA...cad=0_0#PPA2,M1 . Maison Galand, possibly his son, was making doubles at 280 rue d'Hauteeville in the latter part of the 19th century. But let me check for other possibilities in the 1824-1856 period when the "crown" over "crossed palms" was used at the St. Eitenne proofhouse.

The "40" in the oval is the number of lead spheres to the French pound which would have equated to a 16 bore in British measurements. Is there another "S*G" below the "S*G" that is visible? Are there any stamps on the backside of the locks?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The front trigger sems to be a straight set trigger. This would indicate that one bbl is a rifle. Just a thought as the stock sports a stag carving.

Reminds me of an old saying.

Sometimes the dead is better left buried.

The front trigger looks normal to me for this style of gun.

This is a great gun to discuss resurrection techniques. Maybe an electrolysis expert will chime in.

Looks like it will take more than electricity to fix.

A PROJECT!, indeed. Good luck and keep us informed. Work in progress photos would be neat.

A.J.,

If you change your mind and want to sell the barrels let me know. I would love to take a saw to them to see the cross-section.

Pete

Ok guys we cleaned some things up a little further and took some better photos for u too see, I thank you all for the information!!! its greatly appreciated.. The triggers are standard single pull triggers, both are smooth bore barrels with the most uniform, small, damascus pattern I have ever seen, truely beautiful to look at.... it would be and is the core of the double, we are currently doing a barrel soak to remove breech plugs as to inspect barrel quality.... will let u know when further progress is made..

Northup, you've certainly made some good progress, but if you end up reanimating that old corpse of a gun, my hat is off to you! You already have my sincerest respect for taking on such a 'Project'. At least you have a once respectable gun to work with...Best Wishes on it...Geo

Can raise the dead!

John

You get those stitches on that left hand working on this gun?

My Hat is off to you mate!
Man that looks like a heap O work though....but from your words you'll be doing alot yourself.
Never mind the nay sayer AJ
The 4 or 5th pic from the bottom shows a big rip from start of rib down through the opposite chamber end....how would you go about fixing that...honestly curious
Good Luck with her AJ
cheers
Franc

Franc I think the rip you see is either a rust line or camera angle, both barrel are solid to this point no serious fault have been uncover on either of them, the stitches in my finger came from an unfortunate accident with a hardwood floor sander... another story in itself...

The Roman Number X, or 10, appears to be the assembly number. A quick search may have revealed that my first guess was way off the mark and that the longarm may have been totally manufactured in Saint Etienne. Preynat & Clavier was active in the latter part of the 19th Century from rue de l'Epreuve and may have been producing arms around the 1840s time period. The "AR" seems to fit for Auguste Robert, either an apprentice of Pauly or a student of his work, who ceased circa 1840. He designed a cartridge type rifle for the French military in the early 1830s, but tests found it lacking and he changed horses to hunting type arms only. Sources give Reverend Forsyth credit for discovering fulmiate and the source of the copper cap varies from Joshua Shaw to Francois Prelat but around 1830 it came into use, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_cap . So if caps were used in the early 1830s and Auguste Robert folded up shop in 1840, the longarm could have been made in that decade or shortly thereafter. The "S*G" is an interesting mark in that it was stamped twice. 1st possibly in the S*G shop and maybe later by the finisher since it wasn't totally visible. I've read that in order to track who made what in order to get paid that previous stamps were sometimes refreshed. Either the dies were struck differently or different dies were used. I seem to have come up short on the "S*G" mark in that the only firm I could find was Sarda et Gonon and the listed time period was post WWI.

Any matching marks on the frame?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I think what you're refering to is the junction between the two breech plugs. This is not an integrity issue, it's just a poor fit resulting in a cosmetic issue. Nothup87, should you choose to abandone the reconstruction of this piece, PLEASE do not give (or sell) the barrels to anyone wishing to butcher them for any reason. I would be willing to buy them to build a flintlock should it come to that.

Cody

The only standard mark throughout the doulbe is the X and an O but we believe the O to be a marker indicating right from left as the O only appears on the left side parts lock, breech, etc.
On further inspect I have found the initials J? M B I beleive the first letter to be J the M,and B are quite pernounced. But this may only indicate the maker of the butt plate as it was found on the inside of the mechanical patchbox, on the butt plate, I am very thankful for all info this is all very helpful into identifying this peice of history and whether or not it needs to be preserved or reworked... Thanks Again A.J. Downey