A few years ago I remember a full page ad for a new Purdey Hammer Gun in the DGJ, I think Griffin & Howe were importing it.I think it had safety & ejectors.
Anyone see , buy, or shoot one?
Not that I'm in the market, but I just wondered how the new Gun stacked up to a Golden-age classic
cheers
franc

Griffin and Howe has a 20b Purdey hammer gun listed now. It's POR.



Maybe the "POR" is why I have heard them called, "Griffin & HOW MUCH?"

I saw one on display at the Vintagers the last year that event was in Millbrook. I can't afford one, so should not criticize, but to my eye it lacked the elegance of a Golden-age classic. It's like they knew how to make hammer guns, but forgot over the years.

What do I mean by that statement? I guess what I would like to see would be back action island locks with rounded bars. Just my taste, I suppose. This 20b isn't a bad looker!

Curl

matter of fact there was a guy from midwest who ordered three of them through g&h wish i could remember his name. I think they were 80k+ at that time.

Another observation:

What the heck is the tang safety for? Belt and suspenders!

The top tang should be clean and shaped like a classic.

Curl

Yet another observation. G&H has it listed as "Price on Request" on the New Shotguns listing, but I see at the very bottom of the details page:

Comments : Available exclusively from Griffin & Howe. Priced at 52,894 GBP Sterling.

So there's the answer on "how much?".

Curl

the newer guns have a little bit more beefiness as compared to the classics. both handle well though.

it has to be mechanical equal to FAMARS at least. who knows perhaps forgings came from land of 'olive und tomato'?

I'm afraid I would have to hunt some of that color off the receiver before I would be happy with it. Are we sure this gun is actually finished in the Purdey shop?

let us hope that at least parts flew in from italy in cartboard box to be finished in merry ole' west london. i would hate to think forgings came from say turkey.
one thing is certain we will never know for sure.

The top safety, I understand, was to cater for the American market; something to do with avoiding litigation like those heavy trigger pulls on factory supplied rifles. They could not seem to get the hammer shape right in my opinion. They were certainly colour hardened in Birmingham as I have been in the place where they were done on a number of occasions. Always nice and warm in there. Lagopus.....

Right non, Cptn!

Why isn't there full-coverage engraving on the locks? This gun is expensive and it should have it.

And those hammers are ugly!

Here's a $2000 Scott with much nicer hammers:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...tthammr_01l.jpg


I think Purdey punted on these hammer guns. You could buy a much nicer 12b vintage Purdey hammergun for less and then have them restock it, rebbl it, and tune everything up for far less money.

It wouldn't be a 20g, but so what?


OWD

The Purdey hammers look fine to me. No doubt Purdey skimped on the lock plate engraving....building the gun with Island Locks for the sake of being purdy looking would have been another step back wards.


At first glance the ol'Scott looks pretty nice...she looks very abused by some unskilled metal re finisher.

I Think the hammers on my Greener are much more artistic & took more work.
It does look pretty nice though...but I guess if I DID have $80,000 to spend on a Hammer Gun, ( Not holding my breath) I'd go for 3 or 4 vintage gals , & wouldn't have to be Purdeys either.
Still not quite sure how to explain why I find even the best modern Guns a bit lacking in something when compared to the lovely old ones.Perhaps its because I think some nice old gents who really cared spent more time with files & chisles on them.
Wonder how many they built?
Franc

jOe,

Backwards is what it's all about. Otherwise we'd get a Benelli slaughtermatic.

Curl

As a matter of fact I like tang safety on a hammer gun. But then I like belt and suspenders as well.
Nevertheless I do not like this particular Purdey. For one thing, wood to metal fit does not look proper to me.
- Jani

Capt I have a brace of Benelis for the slaughter...

I wouldn't mind owning an old Island back action locked Purdey but lets face it it wasn't their best design.

jOe,

Agreed. Their premier design is the Beesley actioned sidelock ejector, obviously.

The hammer gun is a retro type of effort. If they are to go retro, my choice is the island lock back action design.



Of course, this is a rifle, my passion - not a shotty.

Curl

Post deleted by treblig1958

Supposedly Purdey borrowed a hammer gun from an owner who suggested that Purdey start making hammer guns again to figure out the design of the gun. Obviously no one is left from the age those guns were made.

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I prefer a bar action side lock hammer gun to the island lock back action guns. I have nothing whatsoever against the island lock guns, I just think the bar action guns look nicer, just my humble opinion of course.

The problem with the hammers is that they are not rounded enough like the the letter S. Their shape is more runic, almost like using the letter Z in place of an S.

yes there is that premium for the name and not w/o justification i might add. what.....you go to tiffany & co. and expect to get piece of jewelry at costco price?

I believe the nose of the hammers is too short, and it leaves a wide gape between the hammers and the firing pins. With the wide gape it almost leaves the impression of a non-rebounding lock at half cock.

I'll have to endorse the statement above, that instead of spending $75k+ on one of these I would rather have three or four vintage guns in good high condition for the same money.

JMHO, as always.

Curl

Apples and oranges!

I think it is much like the nostalgia cars. They might be a fair attempt, but which one would you really want in your driveway?

2007 Mustang


1967 Mustang

John

I'd rather have the 2007. But had you shown a 69 or 70 with a proper motor my answer would be different.

The gun is right and nice, but price is beyond my understanding.
Now I think I was wrong asking $8,000 for war time Sauer Meisterwerk. I had to double it.

I wonder if the "teats on a boar hog" safety is automatic, as well?

I was wondering the same.

Curl

Post deleted by treblig1958

It is about 500 man hours of work, it is never going to be cheap. best, Mike

Yes, and those man hours are highly skilled. The finished product bears the Purdey marque because it is the product of such high standards. It's not an AyA in disguise. There's a difference.

Curl

Are we sure it's not "something" in disquise? Who actually made that gun, start to finish?

The Keebler elves?

Bill, that is a good question. I've not heard of it being made by others. I recall that Purdey commissioned their new line of O/U shotguns in Italy, but they made no bones about it.

Maybe somebody can answer.

And as you know, I'm not promoting the Purdey hammer gun. My statement was in response to the statement above:



In the end, even if the gun is made by others it is made to high standards worthy of the name "Purdey." That's a far cry from any AyA I've seen.

Curl

Post deleted by treblig1958

When Holland and Holland started "making" their "Sporting Guns" more than a decade ago, one of them ended up in a shop where I worked. It was not impressive and it didn't work. The purchaser was not willing to send it back over and over so had it tweaked by a local gunsmith. What a fate for a brand new gun from a top British maker. I have no idea who really makes the Holland Sporter, but I don't want one. A gentleman who I have shot with a time or two does it the right way. When he gets a twitch, he orders a new H&H bird gun, waits a few months, writes a check for about twice what a new "Sporting Gun" costs, and ends up with a fine gun with no excuses. No fuss, no muss.

Well I was at the factory last Friday eightbore and they are worked off their feet, there are a LOT of 20 bore over under sporters in the line under production. maybe that early gun you saw had some glitches but I don't think you'll find many now. By the way, why do AYA get such grief here, I think their No.1 is almost as good as a best English gun, regards, Mike p.s. no relation to Holland, Purdey or AYA

The Purdey hammer guns were made at Purdey. If you have my book, you can see some photos of one of them being filed up on the bench.

They were made because a request was made and it appeared there was amarket for them. they were based on an existing gun, provided as atemplate. the sfety was added because it was requested and is more in-line with what the 21st century buyer wanted. Plenty of hammer guns were made with top-strap safety (I have a Nowotny self-cocker with one in the workshop now).

I know this is a forum where we can all say what we like but it always strikes me as a bit sad that so many are willing to queue up do deride the work of such highly skilled people working with integrity and to a standard nobody on this board can ever hope to match.Purdey and H&H etc are always totally up-front about which guns they make and where/how they are made. The niggling 'I wonder if it were made somewhere else' comments are unbecoming and ignorant.

I am always impressed with teh respect best gunmakers treat work by their peers even if they see reason to fault it "any fool can criticise a gun" as my ex-Purdey finisher says regularly.

As far as I can see Purdey produced a number of intereting hammer guns to sell now to the buyer of today and reflecting one or two changes to style and function. They were £55.000 when launched, as I remember. I can't afford one and I'd prefer an 1880 example but that is not meant as a criticism of the new guns, just a reflection of my preference for old stuff.

Mike, where do the Sporters stand in the price structure compared to the Royal side by side? I don't think most of us are critical of the new hammer gun except for a thirst for knowledge about its source. Smallbore and Mike have straightened us out on that. Is there a newly produced shotgun from the best makers that is not built in the factory of the named maker? I wonder how much Purdey would charge to weld up the safety slot and reengrave and reharden the top tang?

Small Bore,

I most certainly agree with your statements about the Purdey. The level of skill required to produce such a work of art is exceeded by none.

I suspected the guns were made in Purdey's shop, and I am glad to hear confirmation of it.

While I don't like the tang safety, I stand in awe of the workmanship. I agree that a tang safety is appropriate on a self-cocking hammer gun. The Italians do that with theirs.

Your statement of the level of skill required for a gun like this is what I tried to say early on in this thread. You have said it more forcefully and more elegantly than I could have.

Thank you,
Curl

If the guns are true Purdey, and I don't dispute that, why is the wood/metal so poor?

Not to put too fine a point to it,but sometimes pictures do not tell the whole truth. I wonder if the lighting cast a shadow between the proud wood,necessary to allow for wear,and the metal.I would like to see the gun in hand before slighting it because of the tricks that light and shadow can play.

Eightbore, at the moment an O/U H&H Sporter is approx £48k or US$70k using 1.46 as the exchange rate, an O/U Royal is approx £67k or US$98k, both of these are rough numbers and can go higher depending on individual specs/engraving etc, best, Mike

The wood to metal fit is 'so poor' is it? what exactly do you find fault with? The wood is evenly proud of teh metal, as it should be. There are no gaps, no uneven surfaces, no chips or irregularities to teh fine edges. The locks plates and action edges are flowing nd perfectly shaped. What is 'so poor' in your expert opinions?

I agree with one or two comments about the hammer shape being changed and to my eye it is not quite as pleasing as the 1880s shape, however, look at Purdey hammer guns from 1866 to 1900 and the hammer shape changes as the years pass so this is no radical departure.

Post deleted by treblig1958

The wood should be proud of the metal. You are too used to seeing worn old guns to apprciate what best new workmanship looks like.

Okay Sir, I understand and I'm going back to delete my posts as they are all wrong.

Hmmm. I dont know. I just spent some time in Mr. Hodgins shop and examined a Purdey O/U that he freshly stocked...I didnt see any proud wood there and he has a brand new H&H .410 O/U in his shop and again...I didnt see any proud wood on that gun either. Those certainly qualify as best guns. I recently looked at a David Mckay Brown that was void of proud wood as well.
The worst "best" gun in terms of wood fit that I have ever seen was on a Famars O/U. It actually had gaps where the head butts up to the reciever and the wood was very proud....it was fugly and its $40,000 price tag was even fuglier.

Dustin

Wood should never be proud of the metal. The idea is that there is seamless transition between wood and metal. No bumps in the road, as it were. Would Rolls Royce build a motorcar where the door panel sat 1/4 higher than the bonnet?

So how come the tires on the RR are proud of their wheels?

Best guns are made to be used and to last. If the wood is not slightly proud, after one refinish, it is below the line of the metal.

Until this thread, I had no idea just how poorly my guns were stocked. Nothing a good wood rasp can't correct.

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BTW the tall hammer shape was decided upon by the need to ensure the top-lever opened the gun with the hammers cocked. Purdey made 12 in 12-bore, which sold like hot cakes and then were asked to make some in 20-bore.

A gentleman of means would simply discard a gun once it needed refinishing. Or, perhaps, have it restocked with fresh wood. A gentleman would no sooner have his gun refinished than his Rolls repainted.

What arrant nonsense! You mistake 'gentleman' for 'fool'. The British upper classes are notoriously tight with their money.

But... I must be less grumpy.

I hope a week in Texas riding a Harley and trying to find a turkey to shoot will smooth me out. Flying Monday.

Hey, I was just assuming!

Smallbore is it because Obama's been gropping the queen got you all stirred up? I can understand that, I get a bit nutty when the man it over here.

But still the Purdy just doesn't look warm and friendly. Yes people have worked hard to make it, but IMO, it doesn't look like a gun that I would want.

And to say members here can't note their dislikes regarding this or any other gun, come on, get real.

That's what they do in Texas "shoot" turkeys.....over bait with rifles....no holds barred.

Dig, are you taking a Harley home with you? I'll trade you mine for a nice eight bore.

I might be getting a really nice Scott 8 bore...Back action Hammer gun, Jones underlever, 36 inch barrels with I think 3" chambers.

Yesterday there was an article on Harley's are no longer cool because they have become a bike for mid-life crisis baby boomers. I'd like to find a way to get back to the day when they were cool because fat barely employed 38 year old dirtbags who lived with their mothers in trailer parks rode them.

CLASSIC.

H&H

If our current President has his way we might just get to see that.

I think every group who ever rode a HD is still well represented, including fat momma's boys. I think jOe is suggesting that our new Irish executive will buy a Harley for anyone who does not yet have one or has missed more than three payments. He could be right. I guess I'll be left out again, because mine has been paid for for thirty years.