Can anyone tell me something about the quality of a William Cashmore sidelock. I understand it is not a best London gun, but is he a noted maker? About what year was this gun manufactured ? Serial# 20633 and is a 16ga. The barrels are marked William Cashmore Birmingham England Made for Kirkwood Bro.Inc Boston Mass.USA Paul
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hammerback, you are on the right track. The value of the gun comes from three basic factors; Brand Value level (BV) of the maker's/retailer's name, Original Quality grade (OQ) of the gun itself, and the Current Condition level (CC) of the gun today. "Best work" was not confined to some select few makers. It was a function of the price point of the gun. The local ironmonger (think hardware store) could order a "best work" gun with his name on it from a number of Birmingham firms. So, it is very important to keep the original quality grade of the gun separated from the brand value level of the name on the gun.

Looking at your photo, I see a Royal pattern action (based on pin placement), decent quality and good engraving coverage, good fitment, so I'd say it is a second or third grade SLE, lets say OQ2.5. Hands-on inspection might shift that some, but it should be a good start. The current conditiion looks to be around "significant use" level, so we can start with CC3. The Cahsmore name sells at brand value level 3, BV3. BV3-OQ2.5-CC3 = $6100; and a premium for 16 bore of, say, 1.5. Say around $9,000. If that price doesn't square with known reality, I may have had insufficient information from the single photo.

Does the wood quality suggest a higher or lower OQ grade? Are there other fit and finish clues as to OQ? Would the current condition fit better to a higher of lower level description? Is there a known selling price or asking price? Is 1.5X an up-to-date 16 bore premium?

One thing that a London 'Best' may have in common with a Birmingham 'Best' is that both may have been made in Birmingham. There is nothing wrong with guns sold by Cashmore. He was more famous for competition pigeon guns than anything and exported a lot to both America and Australia. Judging by the side clips on yours it looks like it might have been a pigeon gun. Details of the proof marks would be most helpful in dating it. The style would most probably put it ten years either side of the turn of the last century; say 1890 to 1910. A nice gun by any standards. Lagopus.....

I would be interested to know whether it is of a heavier than normal proof. Are the barrels longer than normal? Kirkwood names changed at times. That, together with proof marks, could be a clue to determining approximate date of manufacture. I think Commander Gunther's Gun Report article on the Kirkwoods may tell when the company name changed. I wonder what Don wants to know about wood to metal fit that the sideplate picture didn't tell him? Could there be a clue in that picture?

A nice quality sidelock, likely a pigeon gun.

Cashmore produced some interesting live pigeon guns, including a boxlock with external bolsters I have seen on no other gun. He sold a lot of competition guns in the antipodes as well as in the US.

My Cashmore Hammergun 13682 was made about 1909, so yours was probably in the late teens or twentys

The lock plate fit looks good. Is the FA a little bit proud of the metal or is there a gap? How about the tangs? And, what is the wood quality? Figure? Color?

I thought there might be some disagreement with my OQ judgement, but so far it seems to agree with other comments.

OK, do you guys really think this is a bonified 16 bore pigeon gun?

Is anyone in possession of the Cashmore records? As Don suggests, we would like to look at the fit of the rest of the gun. Horace Kirkwood was a high average competition shooter with many well to do friends in the game. It could have been made for him or made for one of his close friends. Smallbore could be on the money, considering the side clips and obvious high quality. Still want to know the degree of proof and barrel length. I'm guessing that the strange looking forend wood fit is a trick of the camera.

The barrel length is only 26". I will take some pics in a few minutes and post them. Paul

Here are a couple pics. I'm having trouble with the light but the stock is nice but not too wild. There is plenty of original case and finish to the steel. The gun was originally bought by a doctor in Boston and used by his wife. I got it from that family. They replaced the original pad before they sold it. I plan to put a leather pad on it.Even with 26" barrels it is still choked M/IM.

That is the first 16 bore I have seen that was marked 2 9/16" for the chamber length. How about you Smallbore as you see far more guns that I. The 1 ounce proof mark is for the standard 2 1/2" cartridge normally. I would refrain from using 2 3/4" ammo in it. With the barrel length and choke it is unlikely to be a pigeon gun as I first thought but it is certainly built on that style. Lovely gun. Lagopus.....

lagopus, consider that it is said to have been built for a lady. Is it not entirely possible that, as per the 20 bore pigeon discussion, she needed a smaller, lighter, easier swinging gun to shoot effectively? Like most of us, she may not have been a champion in the ring for money, but still enjoyed shooting.

I can't recall chamber length but I have seen several 16-bore pigeon guns, both hammer and hammerless.

While we think of pigeon guns as being long-barrelled, I remember a Westley Richards re-barrelled by William Ford with 24 3/4" steel barrels, tightly choked, 2 3/4" chambers, with a hump-back rib. It struck me that this may have been for pigeon competition, making a quikly moving gun but giving the impression of length in the sight picture.

However, it may just be that the customer fancied slde clips on this gun.

Sweet gun. I love my Cashmore and it is not half the gun that your's is. Regardless of value, I would guess that it will balance well and perform flawlessly.

Thanks for the pictures.
Brent

Why do people think this is a pigeon gun, or a gun made to shoot live pigeons?

Rocketman: the proof for the "smaller gun for a smaller pigeon shooter" idea seems pretty thin. Do we have any other evidence other than wild conjecture? I think it is far more likely that the no-safety, long bbled 20 gauges were made as duck guns. BTW: that DHE 20g with 34" bbls at Julia's weighs 8lbs - way to much gun for someone looking to scale down.

Smallbore, how did you know the 16g pigeon guns you saw were actually made for competitive live pigeon shooting? Did they letter that way? What features did they have?

Thanks

OWD

OWD, this gun seems to have several features common to pigeon guns. It is said to have been made for a lady. Yes, it could be a duck gun - - - or both! Duck and pigeon guns seem to share many common features and none are truly definitive or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Your turn.